Circus of Safety Episode 3 Transcript:

Welcome back to the Circle Safety! How are we this morning? Very good, thank you. Fantastic yourself, mate? A very good bit called, but very good. Don’t cover. Very good. Now we just got to, we’re not going. We’re not going well here. Dez is the only one seeming to be able to kind of hold the team here.  Andy and I seem to both be struggling with it issues. We’ve managed to get audio, but we can’t seem to get visuals.

So, thank you Dez, the only sensible one in this group. Uh, so really, really appreciate that. Hey guys, how about we just get into it?  We’ve obviously been, well, if you’ve been watching the Circus of Safety LinkedIn page, you’ll notice that we’ve been dropping hints.  I know it’s hard to believe, but we’ve got a special guest that’s agreed to join us. So quite exciting. But, before we get to our special guest, how about we go spin the wheel? Does that sound like a plan? Spin away. It’s been away. Okay, so let’s bring the wheel up. There we go. Can we all see the spinning wheel? Absolutely fantastic, and away we go.

Oh, what a thought. Professional registration.  I don’t quite know what’s going on here. It may appear that somebody’s jimmied the spinning wheel of death.  I can’t believe that’s the case, but it looks like on today’s show, this is the dumbfounded that somebody would have compromised the spinning wheel of death. The whole integrity of the show’s compromised now, Brenton. Oh, actually, oh, sorry, Dez, I forgot, mate.

Listen before we get into it and we compromise not only our the integrity of the show but the integrity of our professionalism, do you just want to run us through the legal jargon that we’ve got to run through at the start of each other a little disclaimer waiver? Yeah, yeah. So nothing in the show constitutes legal advice or any sort of advice for that matter and shouldn’t be acted upon without seeking professional advice.

And on that basis, probably shouldn’t be listened to by anyone. We spoke about this, mate. We’re supposed to be growing the audience, not telling people not to listen. Oh, really hard to find good help these days. I guess you get what you pay for, right?  hey, so we’re going to be talking today, today about professional registration. And if you’ve been watching the page over the week, we’ve got a special guest then.

And before we reveal our special guest, just a bit about this special guest: the special case comes to us with over 20 years of experience in risk management and safety. And by all means, making the world a much safer place. They happen to also be a professionals managing director, management director, I believe, of a Professional Services consultancy in the past. And they’ve also been reaching out to not only working locally but working globally, which is pretty exciting. Who would have thought we could have attracted such talent?

This individual has also held independent governance roles in very notable organizations such as the Department of Corrections, as a fellow of certain organizations. They have educated students on crucial topics like Risk Management and health and safety principles. Our mystery expert has also chaired an advisory panel with representatives from tough companies in academia.

In fact, and I don’t know if we’re sure about the special guest on the show because they’re gonna they’re making us look like idiots, they’ve also played significant roles in search and rescue initiatives, advising multiple members of strategic committees, and has also been an inspector for regulators, as well as leading an international consultancy. I mean, with a skill set like that, this show is definitely going to be lifting in professionalism. So without further ado, gentlemen, can we get a drum roll from someone?

Okay, there we go. From me and welcome to the show, Helen Sed Grove. How are you? Hello, I’m good, thank you. Good morning. Thank you for coming in. I appreciate there was a bit of bribery and corruption that led to this meeting.  whereabouts in the world you’re at the moment? I mean, I’m in Dunedin today and I’ve got to admit I have not been professional this morning. I’ve been traveling the last two days, and so I’ve had toothpaste in my makeup bag, and I went to put my eye makeup on this morning, and it was toothpaste on my eye brush, so I smeared my eye with toothpaste. 

So I am now very alert and minty fresh. Oh wow, like I mean, wow.  minty fresh. That’s definitely something that we’re not normally on this show, so thank you for bringing in a bit of freshness, to the show greatly, greatly appreciate that. Now, I’ve had toothpaste in my eyes before, Helen, and normally I end up kind of crying, and but you seem to be very composed.  Yeah, professionalism.

It’s the professionalism, Britain, professionalism. Well, that’s, that’s very, I like the way you’ve led into this. Because professionalism is a little bit about what we’re going to be talking about.  today, we, on the spinning wheel of death. I know this is hard to believe, but professional registration was the topic that’s popped up on the spinning wheel of death this morning. It’s absolutely shocking. Somebody would have, it appears that somebody’s maybe, jimmied the spinning wheel of death. But now the reason we’ve got you on the show, Helen, and I’m, I’m just trying to play with the technology.

I’m, seem to be having a mare today.  is you recently put up a,  a LinkedIn post regarding professional registration, which I unfortunately can’t seem to share at the moment, but, uh, it was along the lines of,  you’ll, I guess, do you want to just walk us through that LinkedIn post? It’s probably the best way to maybe kind of start the stuff. Sure, it was, it was more of a rant really than a post. It was like the equivalent of a drunk text which, on reflection, I may not have posted if I thought it through, but it’s out there now. Sorry, can I ask a question? Yes.  And not that this has, told everyone to stop watching. There’s probably nobody actually watching the show right now.  were you drinking at the time?

At the time, although it doesn’t appear… sorry, carry on as you were. So I was,  I was updating my Hassan’s registration which I’ve been a member of Hassan’s for a few years because I supported it at the beginning, and I was updating it and then had to re-upload some certificates and evidence for things that I would consider to be core competence for a health and safety person.

So, I, I threw my toys because I got so frustrated with the bureaucracy, and that was it. I had enough. Well, what I was really surprised about is, putting that post on, how many people resonated with it and how many public messages and private ones that I’ve had that have said, “Actually, we feel frustrated with this process too.”

Oh wow, yeah. Funny you bring that up. Like I did a bit of research. Like I’ve really lifted my professionalism for episode three of the sex and safety, so, thank you for doing that for us.  I actually did a bit of research, Helen, because you know, I guess there’s a couple of things I just want to touch on. Firstly, I believe we may even have an international audience, which is, which is pretty exciting. Uh, now not everyone may know what Hasen’s actually is. So Hasen’s in New Zealand, is, I guess, it’s our professional registration body, right? And they, uh, how would we describe them?

They’re the peak body for health and safety organizations in New Zealand is how they describe themselves.  They’re probably their primary, well, no sobriety is around the Hasen’s register, which is what kind of started your sort of your rant, as you’ve described it.  and, uh, surprisingly, well not surprisingly, but I don’t know if people aren’t aware, they’ve actually now… I saw a post that they put on LinkedIn.

They’ve been going for five years, five years now. Interestingly though, I did some… I’m not known for my maths, and that’s why we’ve got these here, because this is a smart one.  thanks. And maybe intellectual smart is this, anyway.  Fascinating though, Helen, I noticed I did a bit of stalking of you on LinkedIn, and all I could find was, is that you’ve got 500+ connections.  yet the Hasen’s LinkedIn page has 3370 followers.

So, just about a… I don’t know how many more than 500 you’ve got, but interestingly enough, they only had 20-odd reactions to their ‘Hey, we’ve turned five’ kind of thing, and two comments on their post recently about their turning five. Your post, however, Helen, 57 reactions and 57 comments about your little rant. I mean, that’s probably… that’s more than the Showcase, really.

That’s all about 8000 people, looks at it, which I found strange, well, that that people, but like you said, though, I mean, I’ll read through a number of these comments. A lot of them, like you said, were resonating with what you’re saying.

And I think just before we get into the panel discussion about this, we just got to make it clear, we’re not ranting about Hasen’s itself. It’s more the process that you had to go through for re-registration is where we’re kind of going at. So kind of just wanted to sort of get into there. So, let’s firstly, in case we lose them.

Andy, any thoughts on Hasen’s and the registration process?  just my understanding is that the Hasen’s is actually the Association of Associations, and then you don’t actually join Hasen’s, you join an association that’s a member of Hasen’s. Is that… is that correct? Yeah, absolutely. It’s a nice place, Association of Associations.

So, it runs a register, and professional bodies join it. And then, by virtue of being a member of a professional body, you can get on the register. So, I’m guessing in that respect, to someone… Sorry, in that respect, there’s some alignment between the different professional bodies that are linked to Hasen’s.

So, their core values would be similar between the different associations. Would that be… would that be fair to say? Everyone’s working in safety, kind of goal, I suppose, and supporting industry and business. Yeah, I think there’s probably lots of different contextual differences between all of the different disciplines. But I think Hasen’s is a kind of One Voice, big advocacy, easier to deal with for government, all of that stuff.

I think that makes sense there, like that. I think that makes perfect sense. But I think this running of the register is the… it’s the only bit I have any issue with. And it’s just the bureaucracy of it, which I’m sure we will get into. I mean, are you… are you… is anyone else on it? Yeah, Brent, Andy, Desiree, are you on it?

Yeah, I went through the process earlier this year. I think it was in late last year, earlier this year. Nice. Any… any specialisms?  I’ll have to check my memory, though. I think its incident investigations, governance, due diligence.  there were several others, I just can’t… I can’t remember, but I think I’m on there as a generalist. Yeah, fascinating. Uh, you bring that up, Helen, specialisms.

Fascinated by that term, firstly, uh, and secondly, fascinated by the process you go to become a specialist, really.  and one of the examples that I use, and I’d be interested to get everyone’s thoughts on, is  I’ve spent 18 years of my life in the outdoor education sector, right? And it was interesting when I jumped on the Hasen’s register to have a look and filter. You can filter.

One of the topics is, coming with the exact terminology, but it’s to do with outdoor education and tourism. The number of people that have specialisms in outdoor education and tourism is phenomenal. And what was even more phenomenal, as somebody that’s been 18 years working in that industry, I’d never met any of them. So, I mean, what are you going to do to be a specialist? You just got to tick a box. I mean, like, I’m sorry, but that just blew my mind. 18 years in an industry, and I had not heard or met any of the people on the Hasen’s register that had that as a specialism.

I mean, I just have a fundamental belief. I did environmental health. It’s not my kind of degree. If you have a trade, environmental health would be mine. Vocational Masters over two years here. Do they love theory in university, counsel with someone watching you. You do a portfolio, you go through your degree. At the end of that, you have to do a professional portfolio. At the end of all of that, you do professional exams, and then you can register with what was the Environmental Health Officers Registration Board, and that gave you almost the license to practice. And you had to do CPD to maintain that.

So, my belief is that you would have the same kind of process for health and safety, right? You have a general set of core competencies. Putting aside the issues with defining what those are and developing courses that have any standardization or consistency, leave that because that’s a huge topic for now. But you would go through a course that would be recognized by a professional body. You would be approved. You’d demonstrate some commitment, like you do through a professional portfolio.

And then you would become a professional member. If you’re a professional member, you would be expected to do certain things like risk assessment, accident investigation, that kind of stuff. Whether you want to do those things is separate, but you should be able to do them because you’re a member of the professional body. They’ve tested that. So then, to get on a register, why would you then have to provide additional evidence to prove that you can do risk assessment and investigation?

Because surely your professional body is already verified that. Isn’t this duplication? And I think in New Zealand, at the level of maturity that we are at the moment, while we have an engineering system, do we really think that business is either not able to find a person without this register or they’re so Detailed focused that they’re specifically going to search for one specific issue on the register, like risk assessment, not just ‘I want some health and safety advice that anybody will do and hopefully they point me in the right direction.’ Why can’t we just have registration which is generalists, hygienists, and then as you talk to them, they tell you what they can and can’t do? Any thoughts on this, and do you want to take that any further?

I agree that it’s bureaucratic and repetitive. If you’ve been through the Certified Professional pathway with NZISM, you just repeat that again for Hasen’s, which to be honest, I think that if you’re a competent, capable practitioner, both of those things should be relatively easy, just a little bit time-consuming. I think professional registration is a necessary evil for any professional body, and I also don’t think it’s for us, for our clients, and it’s in the absence of a professional body and professional registration, they don’t have anything to measure us with.

However, I said this to both Andy and Brent before, I don’t think it carries any weight until we start talking about deregistration of practitioners. Yep, absolutely, absolutely. That’s when it starts to mean something. And that’s what I wanted to talk about, was if it’s an association of associations, who removes you from malpractice?

Because would that mean that Hazards would have to remove the whole of NZISM? Or is it down to NZISM to revoke the membership of an individual who’s on the register? And that’s one thing that I’ve never really understood, and it’s a question that’s come up a few times with the diploma students that I teach. In Block eight, we talk about continued professional development, and this is… I’ve always found this quite an interesting topic for us to discuss. Has anyone got any insights into that aspect of it?

Not my… My thoughts are, you’re a member of a professional body with a code of ethics, so they would be the ones that would investigate any malpractice. And if you are sanctioned by your professional body and you weren’t a member of that professional body or you were degraded to a different level, then that might impact your ability to go on the register in the first place. I think there’s that synergy there. I think maybe the disconnect is that Hasen’s, rather than just running a register, is running a also a duplication process where they say you can… you can say that you can do all of these separate little things as well.

I’m not sure that we need that at this stage. I also recognize that this is a body that needs funding, and at 115 dollars per person and two and a half K in… And did I send at the moment, if everyone was on it that would be about just under 300,000 a year, which is useful money for advocacy and all of that other stuff. So, the register is definitely a revenue stream.

It doesn’t need to be a bureaucratic revenue stream. Yeah, so interesting. The thing that jumps out to me, though, and Des sort of started touching on it, and I guess Andy’s sort of gone on there as well a little bit, and maybe it’s my naivety, but what is the difference between, as this has mentioned, he’s gone through his Certified Professional accreditation things that I assume, and I’m currently going through that.

What is the difference between the two, really? And are those, does that then put NZISM, for example, and Hasen’s in competition with each other? And in a country this size, where we’ve only got, you know, I don’t know how many professionals in the business in this country, is that what we need right now as a professional body to drive us forward? I don’t think they’re in competition with each other because I think they do different things.

So, I think a professional body is a professional body, and, like you said, Des, it’s important that we’ve got professional standards. The question of whether the standards are set right is separate, but it’s important we’ve got them. We’ve got codes of ethics, you know, it gives confidence to people, that’s awesome.

All Hasen’s is, is a vehicle to bring a marketplace to business for all of those professional bodies. So, it’s just a way to showcase the business. These are all the people you could have come and help you or support you. So, rather than going to each professional body, a business can go to this one portal and find all of the professionals that are on this register. So, they’re separate things. Hasen’s definitely doesn’t have the same professional body standing or standard as ISM or their health nurses and stuff.

I don’t think. How about yourself, Des? What are you, what do you reckon? I always compare this to my last Profession, which was a legal profession in Western Australia, and the way they were set up, they had the Law Society, which was the equivalent of NZISM, and they had the Legal Practice Board, which was not quite the equivalent of Hasen’s, but basically, you would expect it to be a member of the Law Society.

You didn’t have to be, but that’s where you got your CPD from, and the Legal Practice Board would determine if you’ve met your ongoing obligations as a professional, and they would also deregister you. So there were two different functions, I think that’s probably similar, right?

Yeah, I’ve got another question, which I just want to kind of throw out there, and I don’t know, maybe Andy can jump on this, just to start the ball rolling, because as part of the registration process, right, with either if we’re going down the road of the Hasen’s register, and you’ve got to prove, provide evidence of, I guess, competence, would that be a fair term? My question is, does providing evidence of competence twice make you twice as complicated? Andy, any thoughts on that?

It possibly makes it twice as competent. They’re providing evidence about your competency, but I’m not sure that it would. No, it doesn’t, and I think this whole thing seems to be unnecessary complexity in this process. And again, for me, it goes back to who, which part of this is responsible for what?

Because if we go back to how you get deregistered, if you’ve got to provide all this evidence to a body that you’ve already provided it to, a body that’s a member of the body that you’re applying to be a member of the body of, if that makes sense, probably not. Then, come on, then where does it… So you’ve met all your obligations to be on the Hasen’s register, and, but yeah, say for whatever reason, you’ve let something lapse with NZISM. I mean, where does, where do you sit in that circumstance? Who’s in charge? Who, where’s the big boy pants?

And let’s be honest, it’s NZISM who assess any evidence that you give to get on the Hasen’s register. Absolutely, so to me, it just seems it’s your rant, for want of a better expression, was entirely, entirely correct, and you have some very valid points, and I think that’s been approved by many, many people by the sheer number of comments you’ve got related to that. I think, yeah, it’s very interesting, well, isn’t it?

Isn’t it a little bit ironic that part of our job is to encourage organizations to reduce bureaucracy and focus on what matters, yet we’ve got two bodies here that seem to be not doing what we’re trying to do. Do you think, do you think that part of the reason that there’s this additional, if you want to say that you’re a specialist in risk management or in investigation, rather than that being seen as a core competence, do you think that that’s relating to the complexity with the different courses that are available and the fact that there’s not really any standardization about what’s taught and what’s core?

Absolutely, absolutely. There’s no… There’s no agreement, and this is something that I rant about regularly, is we don’t… We haven’t really got some clear definitions about what our subject is, and quite often, we’ll talk about safety, but no one can actually agree with what safety actually is and what it isn’t. And until there’s a professional body or group of people who’ve got some very fundamental definitions of what we’re actually trying to achieve, then everything’s going to be very, very messy.

And that’s what I find with some of my clients when they engage different organizations to provide them with training and advice, is that it’s often, possibly not contradictory, but it… It doesn’t support each other, so they’ll put the supervisors on a supervisory course and imagine a managing safety course, but they’re both getting different messages. And that doesn’t work in the organizational context. Before, you know this. Hell yeah, we spoke about this years ago.

But then again, sticking with, with, with, I guess all organizations, for organizations, as you might know, I’m involved with INCHPO, and, again, very similar circumstance, right? This is an organization, an international organization, that’s bringing together, I guess, regional or local organizations from around the world, and you’ve got the qualifications framework.

So, uh, in terms of trying to define, or not define, but, you know, put those core competencies in there, you know, there is a, there is a, a baseline, if we, if we wanted to follow such a baseline.  so, uh, it’s just again interesting because even when it seems we’re just going to make sure that we’re not all trying to be in competition, you know, with each o Other, and I think that’s, that’s my worry, and that’s where I see Hasen’s and NZISM, for example, in the simplest of simplicity of it all.  is potentially,  almost because, again, you’ve got NZISM, and there’s a register of all the professionals, right?

I mean, maybe, maybe that register could be tied up around, what is a certified professional mean versus a professional versus, or whatever.  you know, you’ve got, like, like I said, because our country is so small, the same people that are assisting you for your NZISM certification are the same people that are assisting you for your Hasen’s.

But I mean, it just seems, it just seems bonkers.  and I just wish I could… I wish you could see more fights. Could you also make a case that the people that during assess doing your assessments are actually in competition with… You can argue that, yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, one of the reasons that Helen said that she was on the register… Oh, sorry, one of the reasons she was on the register was because she could do Surplus assessments. So, yep, yeah, well, I believe that’s quite lucrative, so, uh, so, so, you end up with a whole heap of,  people that are on this register that are actually competing against each other. And some of those are going to get that with any register.

 We’re going to be doing the assessment themselves, so you end up assessing your competitors to get on the register. This is a question for you, mate. Is it… Isn’t that going to be the case with any sort of professional registration? I don’t know. I think so when we’ve got a voluntary body doing it, for sure, because, you know, people donate their time, which is awesome. But at the same time, they’re not paid to do it, and it’s not a… It’s not a separate function like a paramedic’s getting registered, and there’s a board and… Yeah, but there is legislation for those, but you know what I mean? It’s very separate, like lawyers and stuff. Yeah, it’s not as… Not a setup. We’re getting better, but it’s not…

We’re not there yet.  no. Francisco. Listen. Hello, I’m just going to come back to you on this because, you know, that intro that I… I painstakingly researched and came up with,  prior to the show, uh, you not only are you obviously got a vast amount of experience,  and work,  experience, practical experience in New Zealand, but you know you’ve also got that, that globally and internationally, uh, which is really exciting. And not only are you a member of and on the Hasen’s register, you’re a member of NZISM, uh, and you’re a member of IOSH.

So, I guess, just really interested to understand your thoughts on how is what we’re doing here in Little World Aotearoa different to say what’s happening abroad and say the UK?  via Vincent, get your thoughts on that. Sure, I mean, in terms of professional bodies, both the same, different scales, and there’s an alignment between the two, so I think you can even kind of cross-credit. You become a chartered member of IOSH, you can become a certified member of NZISM. They’re sort of cross-credited. IOSH has been around a lot longer, and it’s a lot bigger. It’s got, you know, head office in Leicester.

It’s got 70-odd staff, I think, was the last time I realized. They’ve got this whole new process that they’ve just launched that not everybody likes called The Blueprint. So, you go through this really long questionnaire about different skills that you have to do, and you do this every year. And it’s leadership, budget management, functional management, and some technical stuff.

It gives you a scale of how good you are based on your answers, and then that informs what needs to go in your professional development plan. There’s links to online learning, that kind of stuff you have to do so many hours per year that’s audited by independent people, and there’s videos you have to watch.

So, I’ll just have to watch three ethics videos. So, it’s really comprehensive. So, it’s not just the fact that you learn about investigation or whatever and that’s it, never have to do it again. You constantly have to maintain that to stay on the register. In fact, if you don’t do the three videos, they downgrade whatever level you are back to affiliate, so you constantly have to engage with your profession and professional body to maintain that. NZISM, I think, is getting there, but there’s still a weird way to go.

We just don’t have the infrastructure and the resources here to move as fast as Iosh. The difference, Paul’s asked a question about where Irish sits and the difference is that Iosh is not a member of Hasen’s. It’s an external body, and they would never, probably, I can’t speak for them, want to compete with an in-country professional body. So, it doesn’t c Count is the answer over here means nothing.  and oh yeah, great reminder.

It’s really cool. Hey, hey Paul, uh, big friend of the show.  Great to see you online and engaging in the comments and, and, obviously, Helen’s far more technically savvy than that than those of us running the show. So, I’m going to see, thanks for answering that question, Helen. I guess I’m also interested to understand in the UK, for example, which,  some people may or may not appreciate that you’ve got some connection with,  where is the,  do they have the same thing as, unlike they’ve got, obviously got IOSH.

Do they have a Hasan’s in the UK that you’re aware of? I shall ignore that accent dig, Mr. Harrison. It was nothing more than a compliment.  they used to have a register called the Oscar register, and it was run by a tax company or insurance company at one point. I’m not sure whether it still exists or not, but it was very similar in some ways and very different in others. So, it wasn’t an association of associations. It’s way more powerful over here, way more valuable, but from just the register perspective, all you had to do was be a member of IOSH and demonstrate you’ve got insurance and you went on the register.

Similar concept, though, really. People could search that register and find a person that was registered. But I actually so well-known over there that if you want health and safety advice, you’d go to IOSH. Yeah, and I guess that raises a valid point. You know, in a country as small as we are, where our resource is quite limited, to me, it makes more sense that these organizations, such as Hasan’s and NZISM, maybe need to really reconsider their position in the market, for a better word, and work more collaboratively to get more clout and more bang for their buck, right?

Because if you’re a large country with loads of resource, that that makes that that’s a different feel to what you’re playing and, right? And I guess that’s my worry, uh, with Hasans is that, uh, is it trying to be something else? A professional body for professional bodies, yet it’s maintaining a register of individuals, which, again, seems…

Seems, uh, different to what it’s called for businesses. If you’re a professional body for professional bodies, I would have thought that your purpose is to support and help those professional bodies, you know, lift the level of professionalism or promote, promote that, not necessarily then deal with individuals. So, some interesting stuff there.  hey, as we, as we start coming to an end, I know we’ve unfortunately lost Andy due to tick problems. Uh, again, great level of professionalism here on the Safety of Sex Show.

I guess maybe the name is more apt than we realized.  I just want to wrap up any thoughts you’ve got before we start wrapping up the show. Yeah, so yeah, I’ve gone all out with my memberships. I joined IOSH earlier this year. I haven’t yet completed Blueprint, but I wanted to take advantage of the fact that there was mutual recognition between NZISM and IOSH, which I believe is currently under review or may have just been recently reviewed. I’m not sure if that’s ongoing, but I haven’t had a crack at Blueprint yet.

But I’m also a member of the Australian Institute of Health and Safety, and there’s elements of each one that are excellent.  for instance, the Australian Institute of Health and Safety have one of the best ethics training um courses or modules that you can complete as part of your CPD.

And they require everyone to do that if you want to progress through their memberships.  And I think that’s something that a professional body can do really well, and I haven’t seen anything do it well so far. And again, I compare that to the legal profession where you have genuine ethical dilemmas where you know you might be representing someone who’s confessed a crime to you. Is your duty to represent them, or a zero duty to the court and to society as a whole? You know, what do you do with that information?

That’s a genuine ethical dilemma, and you need an answer to that. We don’t have that in safety.  A lot of the ethics training and courses that we do centres around us acting professionally and being honest and working with integrity. Yeah, that’s great.

But what do I actually do when I’m being asked to risk assess something with a particular predetermined outcome, for instance? Or I’m forced to do an investigation and apply just culture where I don’t want to apply just culture, but this company policy. There’s a plethora of different things that need answers, and none of them quite have that yet. So, I think there’s a lot of work to be done for a professional body. For a profession that’s in its infancy, but I’m not, uh, I think we’ve taken some pretty big strides in New Zealand and I’m, I’m pretty happy to be a part of Enterprise.

I just, they’re not perfect, but they’re definitely heading in the right direction. No, great, it is. We appreciate that, and, yeah, and I think that just sums up the whole thing, you know. We’re not, we’re not saying, that one’s better than the other. We’re definitely not saying that, one, you know, that there’s anything wrong with either of them. Uh, it’s just around making sure that there’s efficiencies, right? Uh, and that we can continue to move forward. Uh, any, any further thoughts, Helen, uh, to wrap up, to wrap up your segment? I mean, firstly, thank you for coming along. Uh, how did you find the experience?

And, yeah, any kind of final thoughts on this whole Hasans registration, uh, process? Thanks for having me. It’s been fun.  I think my, my final thoughts are to echo what Decides absolutely fully support Hassans, always have. And, you know, I, I like the concept, but I just worry that we are over engineering a solution to a problem that we’re not necessarily sure isn’t a symptom of other problems.

If businesses need access to health and safety advice, then is the bureaucracy that sits around the ability to get on that register currently a barrier to people going on the register and therefore giving people all that advice?

So, if we over engineered a solution to a problem, it’s my only concern, but fully support Hassans and will always be a member of a professional body while I work in safety, until I set up a bakery in some far-flung country. I will, I will maintain that professional standard. So, thanks, thanks for having me on. It’s been nice to, uh, to see Desai and to hear from you, Brent. No worries, then. And, listen, really appreciate you coming on.

I know, I know we’re in our infancy here on the Safety Video Cast and, and,  probably took a lot of courage to put yourself out there on, on such a highly unprofessional, disjointed,  disorganized,  show, really. So, really appreciate you coming along and lifting that level of professionalism for us and making us do actual research before us, before we went, we went live.

So, thank you for that.  and for me, to wrap up, I mean, I will be posting my reflections next week on, on the call, once we’ve, once I’ve had time to reflect and digest. And, that’s going to be on my, our little Patreon account that we’ve got running. If you want to support the show, now, yeah, I’m still a little bit confused, to be, to be honest.

Doesn’t take much to confuse me, but I, I am a little bit still confused around, uh, where these two organizations sit,  in, in the current, uh, landscape of New Zealand health and safety. Uh, I, I agree. I think they’re both trying to, to do really good work, and I don’t disagree with that. One little bit, I think, maybe some greater work and clarity around positions in the market. Uh, place positions in the landscape and how they can better work together to remove bureaucracy and support the profession, uh, growing but also support those, like you said, looking for, uh, professionals to support them and in that mix. So, uh, yeah, it’s been an absolute blast. I hope everyone out there, thank you to Paul Shaw again, going hard on the LinkedIn chat.  really appreciate that.

We might have to delete some of those comments. I don’t know how appropriate they are.  Really appreciate those hundreds of viewers tuning in and, yeah, look forward to seeing you on the Safety Circus. Uh, hopefully, you’ll get to see me actually, uh, in the next couple of weeks. So, until then, take care, and we’ll talk soon.