Circus of Safety Episode 4

Circus of Safety Episode 4 Transcript:

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Circus of Safety Videocast where Andy, Des, and myself, Frankton, look to guide you through the thrilling world of, safety. And I don’t know, try to make, try to make something simple out of what seems to have become an incredibly, incredibly,  complex,  beast.

Now, listen, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback, over the last couple of weeks, which has been great. Now, really just,  really keen, Dez, just to get us underway, mate.  can you just cover off the bits that we need to cover up really quickly if you don’t mind? Yeah, I’m, I’m, I have to say I’ve got a lot of feedback, a lot of criticism from our last disclaimer, really.  mobs of people in the street throwing rotten fruit at me. Wow, oh really? Yeah, quite bad. So, I thought I’ll put in some genuine effort this time, so this one’s a little bit more lengthy but I think it really hits the nail on the head.

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Okay. So, thanks, thank you. That’s so funny. I think we’re gonna have to have a pre-production meeting.  If you run through some of the stuff before we start, because, I guess we’re covered.  Simple terms, take what we say with a grain of salt. I think this is what I took from that.  a lesson also.  we’ve over the fortnight, not only have we had fruit thrown at us in the streets, apparently,  we’ve had rapturous applause from people as we’ve turned up to,  to meetings and to the like. It’s been quite a phenomenon.  we’ve got quite a bit of feedback come through the LinkedIn channel, as you can see. Now we’re streaming live on our very own LinkedIn channel, and that’s, thanks to all the people that have been supporting us. So, big, big, really appreciate that.

One of the comments that came from a follower,  and I’m just going to sort of paraphrase and summarize it,  was, ‘Helen, you’re a badass.’  and I think that was meant in a really cool, positive tone, so really cool to see people appreciated the conversation we had with Helen Sandgrove last week,  fortnight ago, sorry, around professional registration in the,  in the safety world, which is really cool.

Hey, listen, Andy, thank you.  Any sort of pop golden popcorn kernels of humour and knowledge that you’ve picked up in the last couple of weeks out there living the world of fantasy as a trainer and consultant?

Not one interesting thing that came out of the last discussion with Helen two weeks ago was I sort of got a little bit interested in the concept of self-regulation, as you do. So, I’ve been reading a few articles around self-regulation and if it makes things safer. And, I found quite an interesting article, but I’m only about a third of the way through it, so, I’ll come back and talk more about that in a few weeks’ time because I bet people are hanging out to hear. And maybe it’s again something we can kind of post on and, share up on our LinkedIn page once you’ve finished reading the article and, vetting it, I guess, for one of a better word.

Yo,  and what I’ve picked up over the last little fortnight, I don’t know, something that I’ve taken away out on the coalface, working, working hard, has been,  he’s, I guess the way I would describe it is an overreaction and lack Of focus in the right areas, so the overreaction part, I’ve picked up with a lot of people. There is something that happens out there in the big wide world, right?

And we all jump on it because it’s the next thing.  obviously, those of us in New Zealand, we’ve had a few recent issues out there in the real world, and suddenly it’s a big deal. Right? And suddenly, we should all drop everything and suddenly we should all focus on this one particular thing. But then, on the other hand, there’s still some really important, really critical stuff that we’re not focusing on.  and so we’re just gonna be mindful about that balance, right? And I guess finding that balance between dealing with the new stuff that pops up or evolving risks in our businesses, but also maintaining the stuff that we should sort of focus on.

So, some sort of stuff that I’ve taken away from the last couple of weeks.  cool. Well, listen, I think now that we’ve, now that we’ve kind of got ourselves off to a good start, how about we head over to the Spinning Wheel of Death, boys, and give it a bit of a whirl? Let’s do it. Let’s do it. So here we go, bringing up the wheel. Okay, here we go. [Music] Well, we can’t do that. That was bad. That’s all. That we’ll spin the wheel again, boys. Oh, that’s my fault. Sorry. I should have removed that one. All right, wow. Well, there we go. Qualifications in safety.  that leads nicely from the last fortnight’s topic, doesn’t it? It does. It does very much so. It is great. Great. Cool. So, hey, there’s, listen, let’s just start with you, mate. Initial thoughts, qualifications in the safety industry.

Initial thoughts? Is that, I think they’re important. I think they run the risk of not being relevant to the industry. And just while we’re talking about qualifications, one thing I’ve noticed in my career is that the most effective health and safety practitioners are people that are bringing something from a different trade or profession. They’ve come from a different area and come into safety rather than learning their only trade in safety from day one.

Nice. Yeah, good, good point.  Andy, I guess this is right up your alley, mate. Your thoughts?

Qualifications in the safety industry? Until safety is clearly defined, it’s very difficult to come up with a qualification. And is safety a subject in itself or is it an agglomeration?

Wow.  oh yeah, or the subjects, maybe the application of all the knowledge. Interesting. Interesting. Fascinating insights there, gentlemen. Fascinating insights. My takeaways, my thoughts, my initial concepts.  I think I’m gonna probably go with Des on this. I think, yeah, agree. I think there’s a lot to be said for people having auxiliary qualifications, if that’s the way to maybe describe it, where maybe they’ve come from a different trade, different background. I mean, there’s always a risk with that as well, I guess. So, it’s just finding that fine balance there. And, yeah, I think there’s a risk of them becoming, well, there’s the risk of them not touching on the right stuff, if that makes sense. So, I definitely think they’re needed. There’s definitely a place for them. And then that, like you said, that links in perfectly with our conversation from two weeks ago around our registration and how that all kind of links in.

So, Andy, thinking about qualifications in health and safety, what is your current understanding of it? 

I think we really need to, like I said, you need to define what the subject is, so what the content would be like. The qualification is just a demonstration of a set amount of knowledge, right, in a certain field. And I don’t think it’s that clear what that knowledge should be. I mean, what should the key elements be of safety? And there’s so many different ways that you can look at this. So, I’ve done a bit of work in this field over the year and around in circles, if we think, you know, just throw it out there. Let’s just go around it. Let’s just go around it. What would include? What are the topics? So, Brenton, what’s topic number one? What are we gonna go with?

Oh, I’m gonna go engaging with people.

Cool. Des, law and legislation, surprise, surprise.

Okay. I’ll take, I’ll take you, Lauren, legislation, Des. Risk management.

Oh, oh, can we get rid of the risk management and put hazard management instead? Or is that a different… Topic altogether, good question. Back to you guys. You’re going to struggle now because you’ve done your lower one. Well, you’ve got, you’ve got, he’s under risk. So, Hazard management, which is identification, analysis, monitoring, and review of, sorry, control or mitigation and monitoring and review. So that’s Hazard Management Systems, yeah. 

Yeah, and we can keep going. We can keep going on with this and start to develop this list, and this list becomes applications, international certificate, for example, these sorts of things are captured in that. But, you know, engaging with people, is that really a safety skill? Well, are you asking me, or are you asking. Who are you asking? Are you on the spot on this? This is quite cool. Oh, wow, okay, here we go. The tables have turned.

Like, well, I often refer to the people’s stuff as dabbling in the dark arts, Andy, and I think one thing I learned very early on in my career, you know, when I, when I first got into the world of safety, I’d come out of, I guess, a teaching background, very similar to yourself.  I went in and I was like, hey, this is what the book says, right? And I went, I went straight, and I’ll never forget this day. I went straight on with the contractor and I said, hey, listen, this was exactly what the book says. This is what you must do.  and it almost, well, it pretty much almost resulted in a standing punch-up because what I lacked at that point in time, what I probably didn’t appreciate is, while I had all the skills and all the knowledge that I’ve taken away from, at the time, was my NEBOSH and National General Certificate.

What I, what I didn’t apply was how to get that message across effectively and how to engage with that contractor and effectively, our people, around the message I was trying to send, which then resulted in a really difficult situation.  So yeah, I definitely think, people, believe. I definitely think there’s a subject and it needs to be taught, because there is a fine art to it. And I’ve got Leon, who’s chiming in on the chats. Every year, he tends to agree with me. So there we go. I’m validated. Thanks, Leon. Haha. So, if we take a step back then, so we think of, once a career in health safety, what, what, what subjects should they study? It’s sixth form, seventh form, yeah, yes, what have they called here, 12 and 13.

What, what, where do you go with that? There’s a con, well, it’s, I can answer this with a personal anecdote, but I think that most of what I do is research, writing, and interacting with people. So, I’d research what an appropriate answer might be. I would write that up in terms of, declare it to whoever my audience is, and then I would also try to communicate that to my audience. So, any subject that builds on those skills is going to contribute towards a better safety practitioner. And the personal anecdote, oh, sorry, the personality is that when I applied for the Master’s program, which I ended up just coming out with a graduate diploma in safety, but I went into that with a law degree, having been admitted to the bar.

And at that point, I was the safety manager for three years, and they had to have a long, hard think about whether they could accept me into the program because I didn’t have a science-based degree. And in 13 years of safety practice, I’ve never done science at all as part of that role. And I know enough about it to know that it shouldn’t be me doing it, and I wouldn’t go and engage a professional scientist, like an academic genius, to do whatever I needed to do. So, I find that my skills from law, people often say, ‘Why did you leave law and come into safety?’ Well, the skill sets are almost identical. You’re researching, you’re writing, and you’re conveying that message.

Yeah, so I guess if you talk about reasons, it would be, we’ll play you up. You know, its building evidence, building a case, finding evidence, you know, not being able to do it all. And this is what I find really interesting about, because I’ve taught all these different courses, and I still teach some of them, and they’re all very different. And I’ve often wondered what are the key things that you need, but it varies within safety. So, you know, to be a safety manager, you don’t… Really need to know much about safety in my mind, but you need to know a lot about man management because, like you indicated, they’re, Des, it’s for the specifics. As a consultant, it’s quite, it’s quite a different field. So, this whole field of safety is very, very broad, and you could make a case that actually safety is the specialism itself, rather than safety is the subject itself. So, safety is the application of all these other skills. And if that is, then maybe there shouldn’t be a direct pathway into safety. Maybe you should do other things and then move into safety. And I think that’s where you, what you’re alluding to, Brenton, is that some of the most effective people have come into safety from, and they’ve found their skills incredibly useful. I certainly know that my education background is far more valuable than my master’s degree in health and safety in the work that I do most of the time.

Now, we’re just gonna sign off with all our qualifications, IGC, and you, and you know, and it was a great success. They say I learned from the best. Now, and I guess, we’re going, right? So, this is gonna lead us into an interesting thing, and I think, I think you’re sort of, I’m gonna kind of put something else out into the mix and keen to get Des’s thoughts on this, then, in terms of qualifications relating to health and safety. Des, really interested in your thoughts around, so do we think it is the be-all and end-all place? Like, I appreciate, I think we’re all on the same page, it’s got a place in safety, but do you think it’s something that people have to have in safety if they want to be a safety professional?

I think eventually they will need to have it. I think, you know, if you might be steering the conversation in the direction of what’s better, experience or qualifications, and I would argue neither. Competence is number one, and experience and qualifications can come with time. But if you’re a dud to begin with, you’re probably gonna be a dud after you receive your Masters, and you’re probably gonna be a dud five years down the track. I don’t know if we’re allowed to say that. We’re allowed to say that? Can we call people? The language, we’ll get a Broadcasting Standards Authority complaint, but it’s okay because we had our legal disclaimer at the start. Thanks, Des.

Hey, Andy, what are your thoughts, mate? I mean, I appreciate you’re probably slightly biased in the space around, you know, qualifications, a big part of what your day-to-day job is around training and education. What are your thoughts? I mean, qualifications, we all agree, like I said, that they’ve got their place in the industry. But is it a must-have for people wanting to move into the safety profession?

No, I don’t think it necessarily is. I think it’s useful because it does give some indication of competence or capability at a certain point in time, and, you know, that’s why I think that’s the whole purpose of qualifications, is to say that this person has understood this at some point in their lives or can apply this at some point in their lives. And I think it’s the qualification has got to be suitable for the purpose. It’s got to show competence in what that person is going to be doing. And I think that’s where it becomes a little bit problematic with safety. And, you know, at the moment, I teach the Level 6 Diploma at EMA, and recently, it’s a New Zealand Diploma in Health and Safety Management. So, it’s very much a management focus. So, you could actually, and this is what I’ve always battled with, you can actually do that qualification, come out with that qualification, and not know what a decibel is. Now, I would actually think that for anyone in safety, should really understand what a decibel is and a logarithmic scale, but, you know, maybe not. I mean, you guys are both safety managers, or you used to be, Brenton. You know how important is it that you understand what a decibel is?

Again, I thought, I guess, is that a question you’re throwing out to the audience? I mean, my thoughts are, you need to have at a, I guess, if you’re at a management level, you should at least understand what that, roughly what they’re talking about. Maybe not necessarily know the specifics around it. Maybe not necessarily know the science, as we alluded to earlier, around how they calculated or how they’re measured, but enough to go, ‘Well, oh, okay, that’s a noise-related thing, and I need to get myself a specialist involved to Potentially do a noise assessment, if that’s the case, I don’t necessarily need to know how to do that noise assessment. I just need to know there’s something in the world that relates to noise and that sort of thing, and I need to find somebody that does know what they’re talking about. Cool. Okay, my view is the same, that you would know enough about it to know that you don’t know anything about it and you need to engage someone.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that that closes that loop quite nicely. He did his NEBOSH, you know, years ago, and I was his tutor, and one of the things that I used to click my fingers and point to it because there’s a little bit of rote learning that went on was the definition of a competent person. Do you remember that, Des? Oh, really, mate? Mate, listen, this is not the time or the place to, so we’re trying to validate whether you’re a good trainer or not.

But again, going, I’m gonna put a little disclaimer out there again, it’s not about necessarily knowing the specific definition, but yeah, when we’re talking about competence, Andy, I think going back, you know, delving back into my brain, under all the other stuff that I’ve got to worry about, we’re not only looking at terms of competent person, we’re looking at, in terms of the qualifications of the skill and the experience of the individual, and there’s a number of things that make up competence, it’s not just one thing, and I think this was starting to allude to that earlier on as well.

Yeah, I think the definition of what I was trying to get out of you there was that the last bit of the definition was that they also know their own limitations, and I think that is actually the most crucial part of it, is that just because you’ve, I mean, obviously, it’s a lot, just because you’ve done an ICAM course doesn’t mean you’re a great investigator, it means you went and sat in a room for two days, you know, and that’s where we need to be very careful in meeting the requirements of what the individual needs to do their job successfully and be competent in that job, and I’m not sure at the moment it’s like that, because there are two avenues that we can take in safety. 

Generally, you’re working in an organization where your key skill is about how to work in an organization, it’s about management, leadership, that sort of stuff. Then you’ve got people like me that don’t work directly in organizations, where the key element there is probably safety knowledge. Well, there’s probably two different qualification pathways there. In New Zealand, you would probably go the National Certificate level if you wanted to do safety in an organization, because it’s all about the application of the knowledge in an organizational context. Yeah, if you want to be a safety consultant, then you’re probably gonna go with a more specific type of qualification, which is focused more on hazards and risk. So maybe NEBOSH Diploma or maybe some of the postgraduate courses at the universities.

No, and that’s probably more important, that those external people have qualifications. Yeah, interesting. I guess it depends, like I said, I think it wholeheartedly depends on the role. I mean, I’ve come across them in my time, and a number of opponents, and as, as… Okay, what was the term you called them, these somebody that’s an idiot? What was that term?  did you say it? Yes, sorry. Oh, God, this is not going well for us.  you know, you come across, you can come across a whole bunch of people that have got, that are highly qualified, but if they don’t have, if they don’t have the skill set to articulate what they’re trying to say or sell the message, you know, that’s another thing I’d like to add to the safety qualification, that maybe we can develop, Andy, sales and marketing.

I know that seems ridiculous, but a huge part about what we do is we’ve got to sell and convince people that what’s, what we’re saying is actually the right thing. And, which seems ironic, you know, trying to convince somebody to be safe and go home at the end of the day, but I’ve also met some really good people that have got, had no qualifications, but then I think, like I said, there’s a fine line then, because at some point, when you’re stepping over and you’re dealing with, there’s a lot of legalities potentially around what we do, and so the qualifications, I guess that’s another interesting concept, is, is do the qualifications need to focus in and around that aspect of things, which is where Des was going with that, because especially if we are providing advice or guidance…

Against legislation and regulations and a code for practice, which is what we often do. Any more thoughts from you on that? Trying to collect my thoughts. I think that, and you knocked it, knocked the nail on the head at the beginning about we need to define what it is, what is it that a safety person is, and from there, we can determine what skill set that person needs. Now, the Australian Institute of Health and Safety has taken some steps by developing a body of knowledge, but that’s just knowledge. It’s not really skill sets. Those things that are commonly called soft skills. Yeah, I don’t know how to articulate this, but I think that the ability to research, write, and convey a message is crucial.

So absolutely, I’m going to throw it out there, and what I’m picking up from this conversation, and again, Andy, I’d love to get your thoughts on this going forward, but my call-out would be, have we approached the entire way we’ve looked at safety qualifications in the wrong way? Do we need to, and I guess it’s not so much about what the qualification is, but around the delivery of those qualifications. So would we be better off as an industry having, I didn’t articulate, identify what is a safety professional firstly? Then there’s a base level, there’s a base of stuff, and maybe that’s the soft skill stuff, like this said, the reading, the research, the ability to communicate, within a number of short courses delivering off that to a more of a pathway, as opposed to a qualification. I don’t know, or something a little bit different. Andy, your thoughts on that?”

Yeah, I think it’s there’s quite a good inch, pull I’ve done a real good job I think with this, with the Singapore record and they’re structured to the health y, the approach to health and safety capability and competency. Good, and that’s in New Zealand. The other thing that’s put in the mix is there’s no coherence between job titles. So a safety advisor in one business is a completely different world to a safety advisor in other business. So which causes no end of problems when people start moving from job to job. But I think, you know, trying to grasp all the Singapore record and use that and embed that in how an organization structures safety is cool. 

I think we almost need the same thing for people that are not safety managers, skills to Consultants. But then you’ve got the real murky space of is it a specialist, and is it a subject matter expert that then specializes in safety? So like I’m an educator primarily, but I basically teach safety. Is that the way that we should be doing with Consultants? Should there be that specialist? I don’t know. Maybe any thoughts on that?”

“I’ve got a whole range of thoughts, so I’m ready till I can load after you, mate. I’ll let you go for it, mate.”

“Anyways, I think it depends on the type of consultant you are, really. I mean, if you’re going into an organization and you’re selling your services as an expert in a particular field, I think that’s one thing. If you are, again, a consultant going in to support an organization that doesn’t necessarily need or warrant or can justify a full-time safety resource, then you’re almost going in as a… It’s a different set of skills again. You’ve got to have the same skills that we alluded to, the base skills around the general knowledge. Maybe not necessarily understanding the intricacies of decibels, but understanding that there is a thing about around noise, and that you need to get somebody in and guide that business down that pathway.

So I think it really much depends on the consultants that you are and the services that you’re offering will depend on… I gotta… Does this then link back to what we’re talking about two weeks ago with Helen, where we were talking about the hazards register and how we explain to people what we do and how we do it? Because like you’ve identified, these in-house safety people, for one of the terms, and then there’s consultants, and then there’s specialists.

Now, they could be in-house and/or consultants, depending on the size of the organization. So again, and Keith Harvey, who’s jumping in on the chat, thanks, Keith, for joining us. He’s articulated your thoughts, Andy, around Inchpo and that qualifications from it, which I know I’m personally heavily involved with, which is great, is a fantastic starting point, and definitely something that we want to incorporate. And I know it is being used in New Zealand. I know NZISM have looked at it in terms of their pathways. University of Victoria down in Wellington, I know they’re kind of going… Through a little bit of stuff at the moment. They’ve used the INSHPO qualifications framework, around, you know, looking at how they deliver their course on their programs.

But yeah, I definitely think, Andy, and again, that comes back to your comments earlier on around the defining of a safety professional and what that is, before we can start maybe articulating what we need to be learning. Yeah, hey, well, listen, guys, I know it’s hard to believe because time flies, right? And I just thought I’d, I guess wrapping up today’s conversation, because we’ve got to still got a favourite to get through before we actually turn off the live show. But so just wrapping up, my thoughts around qualifications and the safety world, as they relate to our conversations, there’s any sort of final words from you?”

“Yeah, I think if anyone’s listening and they want to get into the safety space, their lack of qualification shouldn’t put them off. Unless you go for it. And if anyone is in the safety space and they don’t have a qualification, that should be an absolute must that they’re working towards, albeit they might be doing it part-time or very slowly, but I think as a professional body, we should be moving towards being formally qualified. Fantastic, thanks, Dez. Beautifully summed up as always. Andy, your takeaways, your wrap-up on today’s topic?”

“If there’s people out there wanting qualifications, then get in touch. Mike, God, honestly, it is so hard. If I could help, we have spoken about this. This is not an avenue for us to self-profit. This is absolutely for us to share. No, no, no, it’s not about me. I just want to help them. Oh, okay. So you’ll point them in the right direction, nothing to do with yourself. Okay, cool. Is we need another mode. Hey, listen, I’m gonna wrap up actually with a message that’s just come through. Thank you, Sarah and Tizard, for helping me out here at the last minute.

And her statement is as follows, and I think it sort of sums up where I’m kind of going, and I think a number of us have headed to, but she said, ‘I think that a qualification is handy in the sense that it teaches you research habits and introductions of where to go to find information. And I just make sure that the information you’re finding is relevant to what you’re talking about. In Sarah’s opinion, it does not make you qualified to go out and be an advisor out in the workplace. You cannot replace experience and a good mentor.’ 

So again, really touching on the fact that it’s not just about the qualification in that space. But it’s about that whole avenue around a competent person. And maybe that’s what we, I think we’ve got another topic on the spinning wheel of death there around the competence and the level of competence of the safety industry. So no, some good chats there. Thanks, guys. Now, listen, as we start to wrap up, got some big news that we want to share with everybody, which is quite exciting. I’m just gonna, hopefully, I’m not gonna mess this up because I’ve already had our mate, a friend of the show, Paul Shaw, comment on my schoolboy error earlier on.

So fingers crossed I don’t get this wrong. So bear with me, team. Now, you may all think we just get together, and we only, I know you all saw the post out there that for the first time ever, all three of us were in the same room recently. But we do actually communicate a lot from between the show. Now, that’s been a busy little… He’s been out there beavering and getting stuff organized. There’s… Do you want to maybe lead us into a bit of how you came up with this image that I’m about to share?”

“Well, I looked at the three of us, and I thought, ‘What a bunch of monkeys!’ Still, I thought, ‘What… How can we get three monkeys portraying the sort of thing that we talk about?’ So it’s a bit light-hearted. It points directly to safety, because we’ve had PPE, but we’ve got the three monkeys. Is it ‘See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil?’ 

But instead of their hands, they’ve got PPE covering them, the spots. So, and Dez, I’ll tell you what, it was a work of art, and a big shout out to your connections for helping us make this happen. But I guess I don’t know, do we do a drum roll? I’m in episode four, season one, we’re already launching a new logo. I guess, can someone give me a drum roll, or just on the computer, yeah, like tap your hands or something? You know, like a monkey?”

“I don’t know if this is gonna work, and there we have it, a logo. So, a big shout out to Dez and the team for making that happen. Really, really… Exciting, um. So, yeah, really, really cool. So, this will be merch will be available soon on the website. Well, Andy, as a consultant, you do a lot of talking but don’t make a lot of stuff happen normally. And considering you’re in charge of the merch, I don’t know, mate, you tell us where that’s going to be coming from. So you have to plan the plan from here, team. We will be launching our own range of merchandise.

It’ll be available on LinkedIn and our other channels. Really cool. The other thing, I mean, none of this is about self-racketeering, none of this is about self-promotion, none of this is about us retiring, although that would be nice. Any proceeds, I guess, that we’re making from any of the stuff that we start to roll out, like merchandise, those of you that are subscribing to the Patreon account, you know, developing shows like this doesn’t come for free. 

There’s not only our time and energy and effort, which we’re not looking for reimbursement for, but it’s the cost of the software, which you can see we clearly need to invest in. So, yeah, so by purchasing merchandise, signing up to our Patreon account, yeah, you’re helping improve the quality of the show, which I’m hoping you’ll all appreciate. It’s great. Just kind of wrapping up the show for the day now that we’ve introduced the new logo. A great topic to talk about. Andy, any thoughts on what you would like to land on the spinning wheel of death next week, my next fortnight, I should say?”

“I’m quite keen for the Risk Matrix, the risk or hazard, you know, the good stuff. Yeah, nice. Yep, nice, nice. Dez, what are your thoughts, mate? What are you like, you know, knowing what’s on the list of the spinning wheel of death, anything in particular you’d like to land on in the next show? I was asking because I can’t remember what’s on the list. Mate, I messaged this to you last night. How do you not know what is on the list? I remember seeing that on there, and that’s something that I’d like to talk about because there’s been a development in the last fortnight’s space which I think is quite significant. Wow, this is tune in again in two weeks done. Wow.”

“Yeah, wow, that’s awesome by which point I would have forgotten about that as well. Oh no, but this is recorded. This ain’t gonna forget about it. It’s recorded on the internet, right?  Yeah, listen.  I’m gonna crack on. I like, I’m hoping, my dreams for the future, zero harm, is one of the topics on there. I’m really excited about it landing on that if we could.  that would be awesome. Now, listen, we’re real people.  you got anything exciting coming up in the next fortnight, mate, that we should know about?”

“Well, I’ve got something exciting happening now on holiday.  I can’t, for the life of me, remember the name of the town. I’ll quickly look it up, and I’m definitely going to mispronounce it. It is in the center of the North Island where the mountain is. Carrot, big carrot, that’s the one. So, sorry if I butcher the pronunciation of that name. They’ll know you’re there now, there now. Yeah, oh wow, how long did that sell until Sunday? So I’m driving, I’m driving down there on Tuesday. I’d avoid them like the plague, dude. You’re on holiday, mate.”

“Hey, listen, there’s… Well, thanks for streaming. Andy, anything exciting for you in the next fortnight apart from driving through Ohakune?  yeah, some quite interesting work with a couple of newish clients and a little bit of delivery, a little bit of training going on, and a new cohort of diploma students Monday, Tuesday in Hamilton.

Brilliant, no doubt you’ll be telling them all about the sexy video cast and getting them to subscribe on the course. So, we should get eight extra subscribers, otherwise they won’t pass, anything nice.  Well, yeah, so, I’m excited. I have just come out of a bout of man flow, so managed to perfectly time the recovery for delivery of today’s show. Quite excited, and a big event this weekend. Well, a couple of big things on. I’ve been struggling through the UCI BMX World Champs which have been streaming out of Scotland, which is fantastic, but also mid-winter Christmas party this weekend, so that’s going to be a bit of a board for us, no doubt, but quite excited about that. 

Yeah, and listen, a big shout out to all of our, all of our people that have been chiming in. We’ve had, of course, Sarah Tizard, Keith Harvey, and Leon Moritz jumping in on the conversation today. So, a big shout out to all of you, and to the rest of you that no doubt we’ll be watching this later on. So, until the next,  the next show in a fortnight’s time, we’ll,  I guess we’ll all catch you out there and,  the main thing is to have fun, yeah, and,  see you then, boys. Take care, thanks, guys.