Circus of Safety Episode 6

Thank you, and there we are, a little bit late, but feeling like the neighbours, what they say to him, ‘How are we today, gentlemen?’ Andy, how’s life treating you? Good, good. Yep, I’m down in uh Sunny Tauranga, it’s lovely, very nice,  and mate, listen, hey, uh, what have you, uh, what have you been up to over the last couple of weeks while you’ve been down in the sunny Tauranga?”

“Oh, busy, busy working as always, of course.  but what I’ve, what I’m sure the real interest in is, I thought people talk about all sorts of aspects of safety and things, but I thought I’d go and look more historically, the historical aspect of safety. So I’ve started reading all the books on safety, see there’s nuggets of wisdom that we’ve missed out over the years, and, I’m particularly interested in a guy called Trevor Coletz, who’s a bit of a bit of a legend in the safety space, and, I managed to acquire a weighty tome of his called ‘Critical Aspects of Safety and Loss Prevention,’ and it’s, it’s brilliant. I’m talking for as many people, I love Reddit because it’s just been the best seller or anything, but what, what he’s very good at is making sort of quite cool observations and summarizing them quite neatly. So one of the greatest observations that he made, he was a chemical engineer, was, ‘what you don’t have can’t leak.’ Wow, that’s very, yeah, yeah, I thought so.

And yourself, Brendan, what have you been up to? Uh, mate, listen, not a, not a, not a lot, really.  I have actually, to be honest and I’ve been trying a new thing, managing health and safety by flipping coins.  it’s a, it’s a, it’s a new thing, right, like, you, you guys really should try, I mean, how often, but in fact, I think I actually want to, I want to coin the phrase, you know, for whatever better pun, how often are you stuck with the dilemma whereby you, like, do I do this, do I not do this, do I do this, do I report something, do I not report something? I tell you what, if you are unsure ever, I mean, listen, it’s only safety, right? I mean, really, all you’ve got to do is flip a coin, make a decision, heads or tails, flip it, land it, boom, you’re in. I’m telling you now, you heard it here first, managing safety, or via flipping coins, so it’s the next, the next best thing.”

“Hey, Andy,  before we move on to Dez, uh, and what Dez has been up to,  just to check,  your child, last, last episode, you were talking about,  trying to purchase some shoes for your son.  have you managed to find any yet or what’s got them embroidered with the Secret So Safety logo? No, I’m still, you can’t decide which logo he wants on them. Oh, wow. Just listening to what you’ve just been talking about, I think I found a solution. Yeah, three-sided, anybody’s got a three-sided coin, let me know. Oh, there we go, that’ll be something else we can maybe make, the Safety Circus three-sided coin. Now that’s merch if ever I’ve, if ever I’ve seen it.”

“Hey,  and again, listen,  I’m not, I’m not ignoring this, I’m definitely not ignoring this, I’m,  gonna be coming back to these, but,  I just want to reach out, you know, this, one of the reasons we do this is,  for the three of us to catch up, yeah, and, and have a chat, which is, which is pretty cool, but,  what’s, what we’ve noticed is there’s been a growing number of people,  that actually are engaging with our little community that we’ve set up online,  and after the last show where we,  where we had a disaster over technology,  situation which we possibly nearly just avoided again,  we spoke about capability in the health and safety sector, and, uh, shortly after the show, we put up a bit of a poll, uh, which was interesting, and we maybe we’ll talk about that,  a little bit later on, but I really want to just shout out to, uh, Nick Bates,  Mick jumped on the poll and didn’t just participate in the poll, actually had some really insightful comments,  and I’ll just read through one of his comments,  this is a couple, and, and then there’s a bit of, uh, answer backwards and forwards, but,  Mick’s, uh, statement initially was,  ‘You can’t define competence if you haven’t defined what health and safety sector is for.’ Now, Andy, it sounds like Mick’s been listening to you a lot, because you keep going about defining things. So, but hey, big shout out to Mick, and, thank you for joining in the conversation, uh, yeah, it is, mate, uh, last two weeks, uh, what have you been up to? You haven’t already spoken much with you since last show. Yeah, well, I mentioned I didn’t have much planned, and it would be kind of business as usual, so I took the opportunity to actually research a bit more in the disclaimer space. Wow, and learned quite a bit, okay, that’s true. The traditional approach to disclaimers is just purely a compliance, approach, and what I’ve found is…

That there’s actually a new type of disclaimer theory practitioners, it’s called disclaiming differently. Basically, instead of seeking merely to just comply with your disclaimer, what they do is they seek the feedback from the end user and try to incorporate that into the disclaimer to make it more, you know, to offer more to the end user.”

“Well, and it sounds elevated, yeah. So, like, I’ve, I’ve kind of embraced this theory, and,  you know, I’ve taken a new view on the feedback that I’ve been receiving from the disclaimers. The feedback last week was that the disclaimer was potentially pitched a bit low,  not very sophisticated, but, you know, pitched a bit low. Our listeners are grown adults, and disappointing, yeah, and they deserve a level of sophistication in their disclaimers. And I wholeheartedly agree.”

“So for this disclaimer, I’ve taken a more sophisticated and more cultured approach, and who better, our thoughts of model a culture disclaimer on the nabad himself. To disclaim or not to describe, that’s a question for your lawyers. Oh God, so shall I launch into it now? Please, please do. Oh man, I don’t know, I don’t know, pray, take heed, noble listeners, as we embark on this auditory journey of works, challenges, and the specter of safety’s attorney. In this auditory chronicle, wisdom and knowledge we do share, yet for legal matters, expert counsel thou must bear. Laws and statutes like the pillars of a grand stage stand firm, guiding us as sage and prudent sages, though our words may be like sometimes that do inspire. Consult legal advisors lest legal troubles transpire, as workers traverse life’s intricate play. Let wisdom’s counsel be thy guide every day.”

“In the manner of Shakespeare’s eloquent verse, let’s navigate legal waters for better or worse. Legal matters first we declare with residual rights guiding us through legal tangles day and night. Much like the scripts that Shakespeare would command, navigate legal realms with counsel close at hand. So there you have it, there’s disclaiming differently in practice.”

“Wow,   that is, that is, mate, that is it. Listen, I’ll thank you that time yourself in that one.  I’m not sure if we’ve got to be concerned about any possible, copyright infringement. Like, this will have to, right, wow, wow, oh no, we’re back, okay, hopefully you can hear me, yep, yes, okay, here we go, suspend the wheel, right, and spin the wheel. Oh, okay, here we go, I’m back, uh, you guys can, you,  let me know when you can see the wheel, yep, yes, okay, here we go, safety software, Queen,  wow, wow,  Andy, uh, a bit of a bit of a shock there, uh, safety software, mate, initial shock, initial thoughts on the topic of safety software, delay, delay, can,  do you mind elaborating on what you mean by delay, uh, gas system first done by the software, ah, yes, uh, that old chestnut, right, not fair enough.”

“But that’s,  that’s fantastic,  Dez, uh, your initial thoughts, shock, concerns, uh, relating to the topic of,  safety software, I agree with Andy, get your system first, but,  my main thought is that it’s just a tool to achieve the outcome, it’s not the outcome itself. So just because you’ve got safety software does not mean you’re safe. What do you reckon, Brendan, well, clearly not my forte, uh, all the technical challenges that I’m having, but listen, I think,  in the right hands,  I think it’s, it’s a good thing, and, and I think it provides a lot of opportunity in our space, and,  but in the wrong hands,  it can become a bit of a, look, until, uh, probably in mind, more initial thoughts,  yeah, wow, what a topic,  great to see, though,  and thanks, Paul Shaw, uh, for pointing out the irony, because we’ve had a few technical software glitches, uh, not only last show, but it seems to be chasing me, and, and listen, you know, I’ll put my hand up and I’ll tell you, I’ll say it, it seems to be all on me,  so there’s,  thinking about safety software, I mean, what are your thoughts, what are your understandings, what are your, your concepts on it.”

“Well, I’ve often hesitated to implement safety software systems, and the reason for that, I, I get a lot of criticism for that, because people say, ‘Oh, how can you, how can you possibly manage safety without a safety software system?’ And I would say, ‘Well, it’s only as good as the data that you’re putting into it, and that time taken to enter that data is still the same, whether it’s into an Excel spreadsheet or whether it’s into a safety software system of some sort. It’s the same amount of time. So you’re not saving time in data entry, you’re not changing the integrity of the data, all you’re changing is how you can manipulate the data and produce reports and findings.

And that’s why I think that Andy’s comment is very poignant. Have your system first because you don’t know how to manipulate that data and get the report or the outcome that you want unless you know what your system is that you’re trying to support with that. Yep, no, that’s, I mean, that’s, that makes a lot of sense, uh, Andy. I mean, what are your thoughts?”

“Yeah, I absolutely, for once, totally and utterly agree with Tesla. Uh, it’s interesting that Keith Harvey’s just made a comment there, ‘How can software do the task when the task is unclear?’ I think that’s absolutely hit the nail on the head as well, is that people often, often sell this idea of you buy this software, then it will do safety for you. It’s just completely untrue, and I think, you know, it’s a success of marketing over of common sense in many, many cases. But I absolutely agree, you should be able to run your system through an Excel spreadsheet. When that gets a little bit complicated, then maybe consider some software, but the fundamental principles, you should be able to manage safety through an Excel spreadsheet or even paper documentation.”

“Wow, no, that’s, uh, I can’t believe, I guess it’s,  I don’t know what I’m all dumbfounded by the,  the topic that’s landed and the fact that we’re going to try to spend the next sort of 30 to 40 minutes talking about safety and software, or the fact that you two actually agree with each other. Not only do you two agree with each other, but we’re getting loads of comments in the chat, uh, and they’re all agreeing with each other as well. Absolutely crazy.”

“Yes, maybe it could be, could we toss a coin to see whether it’s a good thing or not? Well, we’re talking about tossing coins.  I guess this is where I’m going to, I’m going to kind of break, and I’m going to break train here. Do you know, I think actually it can help you with your systems and your processes. Like, you don’t need to have your documented systems and processes, and in some aspects, I’m going to suggest that possibly, you know, if safety is a topic that maybe you’re unsure about and is a topic that you don’t really know what your systems or processes are or need to look like or could look like or should look like,  I’m going to actually throw it out there that possibly,  using safety software, maybe one that’s off the shelf, uh, a reputable brand of course,  can actually help you improve your processes which you may or may not have can improve your tasks if something if you don’t know, I guess where to start or you don’t know what it should do, by implementing safety software, I’m going to suggest that maybe it can actually help you write your systems and your processes when you actually have to start thinking about it.”

“So, I think it’s definitely a topic, a piece or a talk, a thing, and a toolkit that as safety professionals we really probably need to be getting around. But again, I guess that’s going to come down to,  so maybe another question, a little bit off-topic here, gentlemen, but, but I guess in terms of,  your understanding of it, I mean, what is safety software? I mean, does it have to be, I mean, are we talking about a standalone package here? You know, there’s a number of Brands out there, and we’re not about promoting Brands unless they shamelessly throw money at us, but I’m not going to put those rank out here, but, but there’s a number of, there’s a number of Brands, right,  who make dedicated health and safety software. What you’ve been talking about is in Indian land, and I’m seeing a lot of the chats pop up as well, is, you know, maybe what is software? It doesn’t have to be a standalone piece. Is that not, is that not safety software as well? I mean, by definition, this is, what are your thoughts?”

“Yeah, I think that’s a, that’s a fair point, and I think maybe we should distinguish between software that’s been created for the dedicated purpose of administering a safety system. Wait, let’s ease up on the big words on a Friday morning. Draw a distinction between that and just general software. And I’m actually a big fan of the general software approach because it’s not a straight jacket. Sometimes you need to change your processes, change the way you do things, and if you have a dedicated safety software system that where the incident reports talk to the triple SP and the hazard Matrix and all these different things interact with each other, if you want to make a change, it’s very difficult to do that if you’re just using Excel or individual tools. And I’m a big fan, and I haven’t received a plug from them, but SafetyCulture is I order the product is an excellent inspection/audit tool, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be just for safety; it can be for other things. But that really does streamline the inspection process and make it a lot faster than an Excel or a paper-based system. And if, but I would also say that is not dedicated safety software that can be used for any purpose. It’s highly malleable; you can adjust it to do whatever you want.  and I’ve used systems where you can’t adjust things, and you kind of straightjacket it into this new system.”

“I guess that’s the key, right? You want it to be flexible enough that you can adapt it.  Now these, apologies, apparently I’m a bit harsh for, you know, telling you to stop using big words on a Friday morning. My good mate Crystal, uh, over in Canada, kindly reminded me, uh, who’s live, who’s tuned in watching us live,  we’ve gone global here, boys,  reminds me that it’s actually only Thursday afternoon over there. So, big word awake is a big word away.  uh, Andy, anything else to add before we jump on to the next question that I’ve got for you guys?”

“I guess it tends to, the application of safety software in my experience tends to make problems worse potentially because you end up being a slave to the software as opposed to swift to safety. And it’s that, it’s, and I’ve come across some pretty horrific examples across clients where it just becomes so overtly complex that nobody uses it properly. The other thing that tends to happen is people buy the software for a significant amount of money but then sort of skimp on the implementation and the training of it, yes, and, that happens a lot, I think, and therefore it never gets used, and therefore the software gets blamed as being not very good, but actually the software is perfectly fine; it does exactly what it says it does. It’s just that the application of it was not invested in properly, yeah, well, some great insights here, John, great insights.”

“And I guess, Keith Harvey’s chimed in, which leads us into the next question, his comment so far is, ‘How does safety software benefit activities at the coal face for workers?’ And I guess, Andy, I’m interested to get your thoughts a little bit around this. The question that I had is similar to what Keith is talking about.  I guess I’m interested to understand, do you feel, though, that high-level safety software has a place in Safetyville?  and what are your thoughts on what that place is?”

“Completely distracted by some really interesting comments coming through. Sorry, could you repeat the question? Gosh, really? Okay, for those with clearly some attention deficit disorder at the moment, do you feel, then, Andy, safety software has a place in safety? Oh, absolutely. And if it has a place, Andy, what do you think that place is, mate? Going off,  off Keith’s comment around the fact, you know, how does safety software benefit activities at the coal face for workers, I think it absolutely has a place in a well-defined system that’s been developed, and there’s a good understanding of what safety is across the organization.”

“And I think it’s very useful for coal face workers in terms of, if it’s done well, to access safe work method statements, to access incident reports, incident recording. I think from that point of view, it’s really good, and it can, if it’s done well, be very, very efficient and have incident investigations linked back to risk assessments, critical controls, and all that sort of stuff. I think it’s incredibly helpful, and it can be done very well, but it’s a significant investment in the business to do that, and you’ve got to train people. It’s got to become second nature to them, and I don’t think in many cases that that bit of it is done particularly well.”

“I think most of the software out there is really good; it’s just not generally implemented that well. Cool, awesome. It is, I mean, your thoughts. I mean, so, we, you know, I guess, do you feel it has a place then in Safetyville, and what is that place? And I’m also interested to get your thoughts then around, too, I know you’ve done a number of talks around documentation and health and safety. I mean, this is effectively formal documentation, so, yeah, we’re interested in your thoughts, mate.”

“Yeah, two comments about that. One is that the safety software, like documentation, is probably only adding value if you’re using it properly. If you just have it sitting there, it’s as good as a safety procedure that no one’s ever read; it’s not doing much. The other aspect is sometimes it actually, and this doesn’t seem to get discussed much when people talk about software, but people say, oh, it can, you know, people at the coalface or… The coal face can access things and they can write reports and they can do everything well. In my view, that’s pushing the administrative burden out to operational staff, which is not a good thing. It kind of adds to that safety clutter. I think if someone needs to report an incident, it shouldn’t be dependent on them having to fill out a form on an app; that should just be simple. We’ve had an incident—might be a text message or a phone call. Then, depending on your response to that incident, you might then develop an incident report, and the safety team might do that. I’m digressing a bit here, but the safety software like that has the potential to push the administrative burden onto operational staff. Well, okay, and that’s better than sight PDS. What’s your take on it?

What’s your take on my question? Repeat the question to you. No, Annie, I’m actually paying attention to you. Yeah, listen, I am a, well, clearly, I don’t necessarily have the most luck with it. I am a big fan of it. I am a big fan of safety software. Well, I’m a big fan of software. I’m a big fan of technology, and I like to, and I guess that’s another conversation topic, possibly. I mean, when we talk about safety software, are we talking about safety technology? And probably not, but I’m a big fan of it all. I am a big advocate for its use, and I think it does have a place. But again, not so much about understanding what your systems are. I don’t think you necessarily need to understand your systems or your processes because I think a lot of people don’t actually understand what their systems and processes are and/or don’t have systems or processes.

I mean, and there’s no doubt as well, how often have you picked up someone’s procedure manual, and they have worded it policy and procedure manual? I mean, first off the bat, those two things are not the same thing, right? So, how the hell do you put that on the same page, right? But anyway, what then I find tends to happen is that the policy,  that is supposedly the part of the policy and procedure manual is too big, it’s too detailed, yet the procedure part of the manual is too broad and too high level and too airy theory,  singing Kumbaya around the Christmas tree. And so I think a lot of nations actually don’t understand their procedures whereby the safety software, it actually, it makes you, it forces you to think step by step. It forces you to actually think about what are the processes. So if somebody enters something, hey, who is that person that’s entering that? Who do you want to be entering, or do you want it to be your person on the coal face? Do you want it to just be managers or whoever the case might be? Not only once you’ve done that, it will force you to think, well, what do you want to happen with that information? Where do you want it to go? And that’s a procedure, right? That’s the step-by-step process that a procedure should be. So I think it’s got a huge place, and we’ll talk about some of the traps shortly, I think.

I’ve got a couple of questions for you still to go on this topic, but I definitely think it’s, it’s got its place. And,  interestingly enough though, I,  you know, I’ve obviously had a recent change in my role at work, and I think this question from Veronica really sums it up in order some really helps me,  define where I think it’s, it’s unsafe to go. Veronica’s, well, she’s, she’s come to us with a question, I guess, or to the group that’s tuning in,  around,  do you think H E Systems should be linked to an HR System, and if yes, why? Well, Veronica, and to all those listening, I think this is where I think it might, I feel safety software has a place in the safety world. It’s your software in a perfect world will be all-encompassing. It’ll be linked to your quality, to your HR. It’ll be linked to your safety. It’ll be linked to everything, and it’ll be a complete management system that brings it all together. So, yeah, I do think it’s got a place, and I think it’s got a big place if, again, if used correctly.

There’s, I seem to have a frozen, and a really good image, but I’m sure you can all still hear me. Yes, we can still hear now. Perfect. Hey mate, so listen, Des, well, actually, now I’ll drop to Andy, actually. Andy, what are your thoughts? Any pros around the use of safety software? Sorry, I passed you over, mate.  yeah, absolutely, if it’s used correctly, absolutely. It can help with engagement. It becomes one place where everything is stored, which could be a problem as well, and it can, like you just indicated there, can increase consistency and accountability.

Which is which is which is always good, but the system’s got to be right and understood, and it’s got to be implemented correctly. Yeah, cool, nice, that’s some good points there.”

“There’s what I’ll come to you now, mate. Hey, what are your thoughts, mate? Any pros? I agree with Andy, but I think it might also be worth considering bringing up a con with safety software that I also think that people don’t talk about is when you’ve got people entering data into your safety system that is not might be motivated by other reasons than safety. You sometimes get a repository or a database of information that could be used in a prosecution against you. You know, someone writes an incident report out of frustration, saying, you know, the company hasn’t done this for six years, and I’ve been asking them to do this, and I’ve been asking them to do that. Now we’ve had this incident, and that’s not evidence that I would want in front of a judge, you know. And I worry sometimes that a database of incident reports and near-miss reports might actually be, and I’m not talking about safety, I’m talking about sort of more legal liability here, might be setting you up for a bad outcome. Yeah, no good, good thoughts there.”

“That’s the Catch-22 with everything like this, there are pros and cons and great dovetail into that. I guess we often don’t get caught up on the track that we have to record all incidences. Yeah, I guess, and is that why we think maybe we’ll fall into that trap that they want to use software or Excel spreadsheets, depending on how we define that safety software piece, to capture the stuff? Yeah, which is again interesting. Yeah, I tend to agree with you finally did on this topic. My thoughts are there’s a lot of pros. I think you can create efficiencies, and I think there’s, if used correctly, you create a database or a repository of learnings that we can apply, and again, that’s then using the information that goes into the software to help you see where your issues are, determine where you want to put your time, energy, and efforts of. But the con to that is the quality of that data needs to be good. So, in order to use it effectively, it needs to be good quality data, which again then that comes down to, as Andy said, I know this is surprising, I’m kind of coming full circle here and agreeing with both of you, it comes down to the implementation and the training and the rollout of that software and encouraging people. But then on the flip side, I think there’s also some thought around everything is a journey, right? Everything has a process, and I think for me, my mantra is you’ve got to start somewhere, as we have with this little video cast thing that we’re doing, and once it becomes a habit, once it becomes a, you’ve got people entering stuff into the system, that’s the first part of the step, I guess, in my approach, and then the next part is working on that quality of that stuff. But yeah, again, like I said, there’s, you mentioned it could then be used against you, so it’s got to be quite mindful around how we use it. Andy, any traps or any cons you can see with the use of safety software?”

“Yeah, it was interesting. Paul, Paul shot, I don’t know if any of you know Paul, unfortunately, he says the way that most of these software platforms are sort of resulting workers, supervisors, and managers getting bombarded with emails that becomes a huge distraction. And I think that’s absolutely true if the system’s not set up correctly. You just get emails after emails after emails, close this up, close that out, is this done, and you know, accountability is a good thing, but it gets to the point where it becomes a huge distraction. I think, yeah, not fair, fair point. Fair point.”

“Awesome, hey, we’re coming to the end of the show, and some great stuff in the chat there and some great conversations around safety software and potentially, I think, opportunity for some further conversations around the space. But yeah, I want to wrap it up with your thoughts on the topic of safety software.”

“I would, and I think Keith Harvey has really summed up my view with his latest comment, ‘G-I-G-O,’ garbage in, garbage out. It’s a safety software is only as good as the data that you’re putting into it. Oh, sorry, I thought he was talking about Lady Gaga. Oh, okay, I get it, GIGO, it’s like maybe we can make a song about it or something. Oh, that’s cool, nice. That’s fantastic, although it looks like we might have some interesting comments there. You might need to jump in the chat at the end and reply to a couple of comments are coming through here on one of your statements, but yeah, listen. To sum it up for me, I think that if used correctly, there’s a huge opportunity for it. We’ve all spoken about this repetitively. I think there’s an opportunity from a learning perspective, and there’s an opportunity from a prioritization standpoint. The topic of safety is so vast; where do you allocate your time and energy? I think the software, if used correctly, can assist in determining that. I definitely think there’s something really exciting about it. I know it’s another topic on the ‘spinning wheel of death,’ but I think the use of AI within that is really exciting, with some great opportunities in that space. However, as we have identified, there are certainly a number of gaps that we need to be mindful of. This comes, I guess, alongside our disclaimer for the show; there needs to be a wide-open perspective, for want of a better phrase.”

“Not really, really excited. Great chat, gentlemen. Sticking with you, mate, in the next fortnight, or in two weeks’ time, do you have any burning desires for the ‘spinning wheel of death’? I think it would be pretty cool to discuss WorkSafe in light of the recent White Island developments, with charges against the directors being thrown out or dismissed. I think it would be interesting to talk about WorkSafe and its role and effectiveness as well. Yeah, no, great idea, and I think I tend to agree. I definitely like that one. But it’s not just about what’s happening with White Island recently. Before all that popped up in the media, there was talk about their capacity within WorkSafe as well. So there’s definitely a lot to talk about in that space. Maybe, I don’t know what your thoughts are, gentlemen, maybe if we get enough interest, we can do a special topic on that. That’ll be quite cool.”

“Andy, what about you, mate? In the next fortnight, any topics of excitement you’d like to see land on the wheel? Oh, I’m hanging out for ‘hazards and risks’ to come up. Wow, old school. Absolutely, let’s talk about the stuff that matters. It’s all one and the same, currently, depending on who you ask. It’s one and the same, mate. I don’t know; you might want to start doing some research now, just in case it does land on it so you can help entertain the crowd for a good half an hour or so. What about yourself, Branson? What are you hoping comes up? Oh, mate, I’m a little bit on Dez’s bandwagon. I’m really keen to have a chat about WorkSafe, where they’re at. However, I don’t want to have any favourites, and I don’t want Dez to think he’s got to carry me every show.”

“So sticking with the safety software theme, I’d be really interested to chat and get your opinions and thoughts on AI and safety. It links beautifully with what I’ve just been talking about in the last few wheels. We happen to have it land on very similar topics, so I do think the odds are in my favour for it to land on AI in software. There we go, not only do we get in the crowd, but Veronica has jumped in. Maybe we need to add this to the ‘spinning wheel of death,’ if we don’t already have it: a great topic. An episode on the role people play in health and safety would be good, I think. I don’t disagree there. What do you guys think of that topic? Definitely, yeah. I want to understand a bit more about what that meant, but it’s worth talking about. Well, I guess that’s the great thing about the show, right? We get to unpack it. Maybe Veronica will let you know if you’re going to have to tune in, and hopefully, it lands on the wheel. What are your thoughts on that topic, Andy? Yep, good, good, yeah, I like it.”

“I think we could talk about that for a long time; we could go on so many different tangents. I don’t know whether this was Keith throwing out a topic or whether he was just doing some arts and crafts in the background, but he’s got their sticky stuff. I guess that would fall under the topic that we also have on the wheel, which is around safety jargon. That’ll be cool, like sticky stuff and… And whatnot, and oh yeah, there we go. Well, Matt Jones is chiming in, and he’s all over you, mate, suggesting he can’t believe we spun the wheel. Well, that’s an interesting concept because I think that’s what our whole show was based on. But, as Matt and Dez have pointed out, there are so many interesting topics there. So hey, listen, I think, gentlemen, your thoughts? Andy, if people are really passionate about a particular topic, and we get a lot of feedback about a particular topic, what are your thoughts, Andy? Do we maybe do a special show on it instead of spinning the wheel?”

“We could, but I think we should put the question to the people and run a bit of a poll and see if it’s something that people want to see. Wow, cool. And I think, Andy, I think, being mindful of your thoughts on this because, you know, we’re a trio, it’s not all about me and Dez, although we could bully you into something. I think our approach to the whole show, though, is not around necessarily voicing our opinions; it’s more about asking questions, right?”

“It’s more about exploring history; it’s more about gauging in on where things are right. It’s great to see on that note; it’s great to see the chat a lot up today, which has been absolutely amazing. So I think it’s just a good opportunity before I check in with you boys about your upcoming futures.”

“I want to shout out to one of our members on our LinkedIn page, one of our followers because without followers, while this is enjoyable with just the three of us, it adds to the entertainment as you can see in the chat. But a big shout out to Mark Cutforth who is a recent follower of the Circus of Safety on LinkedIn.”

“Andy, the next couple of weeks, mate, anything exciting planned? Any kind of wonderful world of travel happening? Yeah, always. I’m off to the South Island next week, and then the week after, hopefully, I’m catching up with some legends of safety. Thanks, lady.”

“What do you think about being called a legend of safety? Because that seems to time perfectly with the next video cast. So it’s humbling, very humbling and concerning at the same time. Well, I guess we’ve got to be, we didn’t have to be, we’ve got to be if we’re flattered, I guess. Maybe one other way to look at it. But also concerned is what we think of Andy’s opinion.”

“But maybe we’ll leave that lead there for another show. What are you up to in the next couple of weeks? Again, business as usual, but I do want to do a bit of a shout out to the NZISM Construction Forum hosted by Derek Cassidy. He put together a pretty good show yesterday, which was a presentation from Grant Nicholson, which talked about documents and safety clutter. It was good because it’s something that we’ve been talking about, and it’s still a very topical issue. So I just wanted to do a bit of a shout out.

Yeah, and I’ve got a, and I’ll fully endorse that as well. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make yesterday’s, you know, yesterday’s session. The ones that I have attended have been great. Derek’s done an amazing job trying to pull a bunch of,  people together and have some great conversations about things and make some changes within the industry. And I see Derek was on the show earlier, posting comments. So a big thanks to him and the support there and great work to, great thanks to NZISM for hosting those sessions, which I think are incredibly valuable.”

“I’m going to let you know a little secret. You know I’m about to jump on a boat. I’ve got a long weekend planned. So I’m gonna have to somehow get this show onto Spotify and all that before I get on a boat. Otherwise, it won’t be live until next week. So I will be incognito, uncontactable for a couple of days, which is quite exciting. For you, Green Devonport? Yeah, man, I’m just kidding. The ferry, backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. There’s a special on, you know, one of those one-day.co.nz websites where you could get unlimited rides to Devonport and back. So that’s mainly locked and loaded.”

“Locked and loaded, and then, yeah, I hope there’s a bit of business as usual going on. But really excited about the next couple of weeks to catch up. I’ve got to be honest, a bit of a highlight in my fortnight catching up with you boys and having a chat. So really appreciate that. And I guess that just checks out my show notes. That brings us to an end, team. So big thank you, massive thank you to all those jumping in the chat. I think it’s been incredibly productive. A great topic, who would have thought, right? Safety software and how this has lit up the internet, I think the young kids would say we’ve gone viral, gentlemen. And so really exciting to see.”

“Take care, everyone. Thanks for joining in, and look forward to catching up with you in the next fortnight. Thanks very much. See you next time. Thank you. See you next time.