Circus of Safety Episode 7

Well, there we have it. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls! Welcome to the Circus of Safety video cast, where, Andy, Dez, and myself try to help you navigate your way through, the maze, the circus that we refer to as safety.  Andy, how are you today, mate? I’m good, good, yep, early night last night, getting ready, getting in the zone for today. We were just talking about that, how you have no social life, but, and we’re going to have to take you offline for a performance review, I think. Not doing your fair share for the team. Dez, what about yourself, mate? How are you getting on?”

“I’m good, I had a late night last night. I was at the Auckland Business Awards, and it was awesome, it was pump, wow, fantastic, this really appreciate that you are, taking yourself above and beyond here for the Circus of Safety. You’re putting yourself out there, you’re getting out and about, and it’s true.  I’m wondering if you could maybe wrap up and subtle up alongside our mate there, Andy, and give them some guidance around, you know how to get out there in the big wide world. You just gotta stop being so socially awkward, I think that’s a starting point, really, for anyone. Well, what have you been up to?”

“Well, like Dez, I had a late night last night too.  I was out entertaining clients at the Auckland Breakers game. Unfortunately, though, I seem to be their hoodoo. Every time I go to a Breakers game in Auckland, they lose, so, not great. But I think the real important takeaway is, again, like Dez, I’m not being socially awkward. I’m getting out there, I’m putting myself out into it, so, yeah, Andy, I really feel you’ve got to lift your game, mate, but that’s okay, we’ll, it’s not about you, and this is not an intervention, but we’ll get to that, a little bit later.”

“Hey guys, listen, it’s been a week, since we last caught up. We had our special show last week on White Island and WorkSafe New Zealand. And listen, I’m going to say, I don’t know if you’ve had, you know, multiple hundreds of messages, flooding your LinkedIn inbox, but feedback on that was pretty positive, I thought. There’s a lot more still to cover, which I think we acknowledge, but, yeah, some really good feedback on that. And, in fact, I’m just going to share with you some feedback from one of our viewers at the time. This is Sheree Camillery. Her comment that she put out there was, ‘Great starting point on this topic, helpful as I deliver a due diligence workshop tomorrow.’ So there we go, we’re being used as training material. Maybe we could send her a bill.”

“I’m also EOTC in adventure tourism, so yes, keep the tree climbing and kayaking, Andy. Stop being such a pessimist. And at times I’m pessimistic about the state of H&S and our future, being in this game since the early ’90s and progressing very slowly. And I think that’s probably the sentiment from a number of people out there. So, big shout-out to Sheree, thanks for tuning in, and hopefully, hopefully she’s watching today. So, listen, Dez, just before we get carried away, could you please lead us in a disclaimer, mate?”

Certainly, and last night’s topic was last fortnight’s topic, I should say, was wellness, and I’ve since reflected on that and thought, “Well, why can’t disclaimers be a source of wellness also?” And it seems to me like a logical progression, you know, disclaiming differently. So I thought we could do a disclaimer in the form of a guided meditation. So for this, I ask you all to move to a comfortable position.

“Well, thanks. I feel considerably calmer. Me too, ready to attack my day. Mate Andy, listen, now that we’ve got the disclaimer out of the way and we’re all, I guess then like any words of wisdom from the training space this week, mate?”

“Well, not so much the training space. I’ve been a little bit obsessed this week with an idea that was floating in our last session, which was the safety, the Circus of Safety dictionary, and, forgot about that. It was a bit of a throwaway comment, I guess, but then someone laid down the challenge. I think it was Matthew SGR down in Dunedin that laid down the challenge, said, ‘Good luck with that, that’s going to be a challenge.’ And I’m like, ‘Okay, so let’s give that a go.'”

“So, what I’m proposing, well, I’ve done a bit of research this week, and one of the things I found interesting is that in English, a dictionary doesn’t define the words, but it reflects the usage of the words. Wow, wow, which is interesting, right? In French, it’s different. In French, they have a thing called an academy, and this academic academy decides what the definition is, and then that’s what that word means.”

“So, the decision that we need to make, really, is if we’re going to do this dictionary, whether we do it in English or in French, and I’d just like to throw that out there. Any comments?  We could have a bit of a vote on it. And once we’ve decided on that, then we can start to move forward and develop this, the Circus of Safety, or would it be, Lire to Safety? And get this project underway. Yeah, fantastic.”

“Andy, listen, thanks again for your insightful words.  Which again might explain why you don’t have a social life, but, listen, I just want to start the show with a bit of positivity.  We’ve got a guest tuning in, Complete Safety Solutions safety software, apparently really liked your guided meditation, Dez, so great effort, mate, well done. Namaste, very positive.”

“Oh, here we go.  And longtime friend of the show, avid poster Veronica, posting for French. So, yes, to those new viewers, if this is your first time on the Circus of Safety podcast or video cast, welcome to the show. Feel free to make comments in the chats below us on our LinkedIn page, and we can see this coming up live, because we are very nervous about you, and we don’t necessarily trust what you’ve got to say. We don’t make the chat publicly available on the podcast, but you can see it below afterward, and we’ve got the opportunity to delete them if we don’t like them, so listen, let’s get on to it, team. Let’s not muck around. We don’t have a lot of time left. We’ve already chewed up eight minutes of our sort of 45-minute show.”

“As always, let’s go to the Spinning Wheel of Death, and, I don’t know about you, boys, but I’m quite excited. We’ve done some updates, we’ve done some modifications, and, are we ready for the spin? Yep. Here we go. I say this with trepidation. There we go. Ai and safety now. I’m a little bit nervous with this one because I know Dez and I have had a conversation about this about this very topic, and my comments were to these, ‘Don’t worry, mate, I can carry us.’ Now, I seem to have stage fright. Goddamn it. Okay, well, no comment. Don’t quite know how this is going to roll.”

“So, Dez, listen, over to you, mate. One word. Your thoughts on the topic. Ai and safety. One word. Tool. It’s just a tool. You’re referring to me or the AI? Yes. There we go. Yes, this can definitely be a hole, that’s for sure.”

“Andy, you know when you saw the words Ai and safety pop up on the spinning wheel of death there, you know, considering all the other topics that we’ve got to talk about, this one turned up. I mean, it had to turn up eventually, right? What are your initial thoughts on it? I don’t understand it. That’s going to make the next question very difficult. You guys, honestly, like I’m really struggling here with the help that I’ve got. Just a little bit of support would not go, would not go astray. I might be able to help you there, Brenton.”

“So, the AOHS OHS professional magazine publication, the latest edition of that, which arrived on my desk, I think two days ago, had an article on how can artificial intelligence advance the cause of OS? Well, hey, Dez, maybe, maybe for this show, we could go through, and you could just read us the article, mate. Just read it out. Yeah. Would you like some God for meditation music in the background?”

“I did read the article, and I did highlight some points, so that’s a starting point for our discussion. Oh, great. Listen, I’m, I’m again, I’m, I got to be honest, you know, we’ve often spoken about our different personality types. I come in hot, I have no, I don’t Prepare nothing, and hopefully wing it on a woman of prayer.   Andy gets distracted by the detail, and, and great to see you doing the work there. So, so here, so here we go. Andy, I’m going to jump back up to you, considering, you kind of railroaded my last question, but listen, I need you to, I need you to kind of think about it, and I just, in your own words, what I mean, what is your understanding of AI and safety? I mean, do, if you don’t understand it, I guess, what about it that you don’t understand? I mean, yeah, what are your thoughts, what is your understanding of it?

I guess it’s, is it in terms of artificial intelligence? Are we talking about things like chat GPT, or are we talking about something that’s P, the, is it the Turing test? I mean, that’s, I guess that’s where I would be. Is it because my understanding that chat GPT is really just an amalgamation of a whole heap of web searches that’s then, rather than put into a list, it’s put into whatever form you want it to be. Yeah, but if we talk about things like chat GPT and, and I’m sure there are other ones available, then I would possibly agree with Des, say it’s, it’s at this stage it’s a tool, but moving forwards, it may be something more than that.

Well, I guess that’s the, you know, I mean, while I don’t do a lot of research, I don’t really study, I watch a lot of movies, and I’ve seen a lot of movies where AI take over the world, so, I don’t necessarily disagree with you that one day it could be more, so yeah, obviously quite so, possibly quite concerning, and I mean, maybe, I don’t know, is, is that why people possibly, possibly are worried about it or nervous about it? I mean, Dez, you’ve clearly read an article on this stuff, you’re clearly a show’s expert on, AI in safety, I mean, what, what is your understanding of it after reading that article and no doubt, doing some research? It’s opened my eyes to different ways of applying AI technology and some of the things that offers, employee recruitment, role design, task allocation, time management, communication, and reward for job performance, and all of those things present different types of complications.

For instance, using an AI system to filter candidates for a new role might accidentally filter someone out on a discriminatory basis and cause legal problems for you. And so if you’re using any sort of technology, including AI, to filter out candidates for a role, you really need to understand the mechanisms of how that software or AI is arriving at that decision, and so it doesn’t absolve anyone of any sort of responsibility in that sense. It’s a tool, but it’s still up to a human to make the decision and make sure that the tool is functioning correctly. So, I’ll just put it out to you there, I think I’ve picked up on something there in that little conversation or piece you just brought up. But, so we’re suggesting that, I guess, depending on how we set it up, AI could actually still have human bias, really.

I guess we often consider ourselves that, ‘Oh, its AI, it’s not biased, ‘ but if we, I guess, if it’s programmed incorrectly or the magic behind it, if you will, is used in a way that not necessarily intentionally, but it could create bias. Yeah, it would be sort of accidental. You could tell it to filter for any one particular type of qualification, for instance, but if that qualification only came in in 2010, you might have some sort of bias against age on that basis. So there’s a risk there. Wow, that’s, yeah, that’s fascinating, and I guess a lot, not a lot of people think about it that way. And I think where you’re going with that as well is people probably often, remove themselves from the process because I guess they feel they’re using some kind of higher, I don’t know, higher being, higher level of intelligence to make these decisions, but really behind the that decision-making process is people, right, programming it.

Yeah, and it might not be as objective as what we think. Wow, cool. I guess, you know, when I’m, I’m reflecting on AI and safety and I, and again, this is maybe where the Circus of Safety dictionary, or academy, could come into help with that. I guess I never really thought about what is it? I just, I just, I mean, I’m a, let’s be fair, I’m a marketer’s dream, right? I, I, I hear a term, I hear like some fancy buzzword, and I’m all over it, right? I’m throwing it in every conversation, AI this, AI that, and I probably got to be fair, I don’t know if I necessarily fully under actually appreciate what it actually is.

I guess my main, my main understanding and my main examples of how I’ve been using, artificial intelligence, not that we would use it on this show. This show is 100% human, right? We wouldn’t use it for social media posts, not at all, we wouldn’t use it for disclaimers, nothing like that. There’s, well, listen, I guess I can’t deny or confirm that, but what I can tell you is, is we, we’re real, the three of us right here, right now are real. And I mean the people who know us will understand that our sense of humour is such that the stuff that we produce is purely 110% our own.  I mean, yeah, so anyway, as we move on, but I guess my only real understanding of artificial intelligence is what I’ve seen and experienced using chat GPT, so probably actually quite a narrow understanding of what it is, and yeah, but I personally, I’m quite excited by it. I think there’s a lot of opportunity for it.

So, Dez, bouncing back down to you, mate, I mean, so with what you’ve, you know, you’ve read that article, I know there was a bit of trepidation, trying, trepidation, thank you. I’m trying to use big words and clearly fumbling at every hurdle here. But, but, I mean, you, you were quite nervous about the topic coming up in the wheel because of your, you know, your lack of understanding, but so clearly you’ve gone out and done some research around it to try and understand it a bit more, knowing that at any point it could come up on the wheel, as it has today. But, you know, bearing with that in mind, I mean, do you feel that AI has a place in Safetyville? And I guess if you do feel, or you don’t, if you do feel it has a place in safety, really interested to understand what you think that place might be, and if you don’t feel it has a place in safety, f really interested to understand your thoughts as to why.

Well, with my suggestion that it should be viewed as a tool, I mean, that you’re, you’re kind of asking me does Microsoft Word have a place in safety? I don’t see it as being any different to that. And so, you know, if the tool is available to you and you can use it, why not? But, again, it doesn’t absolve you for making a decision or being responsible for your actions.

But there is a loose definition that I’m aware of which might help guide the discussion, and that is that there’s General artificial intelligence, which is basically something that would pass a Turing test and be able to make any sort of decisions as and hold a conversation as any human could. And the other one is like a specific artificial intelligence, which is sort of like your chess master app. It’s really good at beating the game at chess but can’t do anything sort of generally. You can’t do anything else. And I think ChatGPT is kind of the first step from specific artificial intelligence to General artificial intelligence. It’s not specific to writing essays or any other particular thing. It’s able to respond to inputs like specific AI cannot. Yeah, interesting.

And I’ve noticed, again, you know, there’s a number of tools that I use and everyone’s starting to use that sort of functionality, right, to try and help do things. But it was interesting you mentioned the general stuff. I’ve noticed I’ve got, I don’t really use it a lot, but I’ve got the app Snapchat, right? And really interestingly, Snapchat introduced this AI bot where you can have a conversation with it.  so, Andy, this could be a good step for you in terms of moving out of that socially awkward phase where  you don’t need to talk to real people, mate, you can start talking to this AI bot, and it will respond to you, apparently in a manner that is quite lifelike. So, and I’m, you’re often the one setting homework for Dez and myself here, I’m actually going to throw you some homework. I need you to sign up to Snapchat.

I need you to find the chat bot in Snapchat, and I’d like you to spend, you know, over the week, have a couple of conversations with it, and just see how you go, and really interested to get your feedback over the next fortnight around, around your thoughts on that snap and how you engaged with AI because it’s quite, I guess, yeah, fascinating how we’re moving down that road, right, and trying to replace humans with AI, responses, which could be quite interesting.

Any further thoughts from you, Dez, before we move on to Andy? Yes, so the article talked about one of the applications of AI that looked pretty cool, and it was Road workers that were working beside the road that have a setup, I think it was about 800 M or so, to view oncoming traffic. And basically, the AI system would look at a car oncoming and alert the drivers to the fact that they might have 20 seconds to get out of the way or, you know, deal with the fact that there’s a car on the way. And they said that that’s a potential use of AI that that we didn’t have before, which is, I thought that was pretty cool.

Oh, so just a little bit of my wow.  I don’t know where to go with this, but I’m just going to put it out there. My worry with something like that, though, De, yes, I agree it’s pretty cool, but my worry about that is, are we taking away then people’s ability to think? And if we’re taking away people’s ability to think because we’re not requiring them to think anymore, you know, like it’s anything, right? The more you do it, the more often you do it, the easier something becomes, the more you become familiar with doing things. If we start relying on AI, you know, what’s going to be the result? ‘Well, I got knocked over because the AI didn’t tell me that there was a car coming.’ I mean, that’s quite, that can be quite a scary thought, really.”

“Yeah, it would be disappointing to get to that point, I think. If you’ve got some sort of an alert system, I mean, it’s no different to staying in a burning building while the emergency L fails to go off. It’s kind of like, yeah.”

“And I guess that’s my worry with this. I mean, I spent two years as a full-time firefighter in Papakura, and I’ll never forget this one time, one of the first jobs I went to was an alarm at a um shopping mall in Papakura, and we all turned up full gear, you know, face masks on, breathing apparatus on, um walking in, alarms blaring, and everyone was just still sat there. I’ll never forget it. I looked up, and there were people in the gym still just using the bloody rowing machine, you know what I mean, like? And I guess my wonder is, will this dumb the human race, you know? Will we make ourselves stupider, if we implement it too much? But no, some interesting thoughts, though, there it is. Thanks for doing research.”

“Yeah, it’s an interesting question. Someone’s got to own it, yeah, absolutely. Do and do we know, do they, I mean, do they really, I mean, like I don’t want to take this too far, but you know, think about the sky outside, mate. Who owns that? No one, arguably, so does everybody? Does some d Does everything need to be owned, could it not just be a shared collective where we could all sit around a train and S come by or something? So I think it’s up to a point of about  20 or 30 or so meters above the height of your the land that you own is the height of the sky, the atmosphere that you own. Here we go, and then after that its airspace controlled by the country that you live in. Put away, keep coming, mate. I’ve got all day.

You might have all day, but are people listening time? So do we know, so do we have an answer then? So if I engage chat GPT to write the health and safety risk assessment or whatever, who owns it? I don’t think there’s a clear answer, wow. I think it’s, I think it would be you in the absence of anything else, okay, because old chat GPT is, it’s like saying if you paint a picture does the person who created the brush own the picture? No, you’ve taken the brush and you’ve applied it to the picture and created something. You’re the prompter, you’re the one with the creative thought. We’re probably way outside the scope of safety now.

That’s why, which is, which is it is a fascinating thing though, and that’s why I suggested one of the new topics I put on the spinning wheel of death and was hoping would come up is maybe we should just abolish health and safety all together. G to leave that comment there.

But before I go on about my thoughts, we’ve got a few comments coming in. Murray Ritchie, he’s holding out for some IC intelligence, now that sounds like another movie that I’ve watched, but that’s quite exciting maybe. He says, ‘We already have the artificial knowledge, why not step out of the regulatory checkbox?’ And he’s suggesting that potentially maybe there’s some money involved there and there’s a bit of an issue or concern around due diligence, so some great thoughts there Murray.

Any links or articles to synthetic intelligence May to help us learn a bit more? I’ll get de reading it, that’ll be great and he can let us know in a summary what it’s all about. Oh, and it’s great to see Crystal, mam’ mine, from way back when, she’s tuning in from Portugal, so we’ve truly gone global, gentlemen, truly gone global. I’ll send you that Wi-Fi transfer later, Crystal.”

“Listen, I guess to wrap up this question, I personally think it’s got a place in Safetyville. I think it’s going to become more and more, and I would like to think that eventually we’re going to get to the point where, and hold on to your socks, your people, we’re not going to do ourselves out of a job. So I think anyone going ‘Oh, AI is going to do us out of a safety job, ‘ let’s be fair, I mean safety is so bloody boring not even AI would want to do it right. But like I imagine getting to the point where we can, and probably there’s probably some computer software out there already at this point where we can almost start to predict what’s going to happen. Now, I’m not saying that’s going to save the world, and I’m not saying that’s going to help us achieve the ultimate goal of zero harm, but it’ll be really cool to help us understand where to put our time, effort, and energy.

And what that will hopefully be able to do is use those algorithms to understand what’s going on and how things are happening, and be really awesome to focus our time, energy, and effort on that. And I guess the trap with that though is if we’re relying on that to tell us where to put time, effort, and energy is that we miss those other things. So needs to be used with caution. The other thing that I use it for, and I’m not going to lie here, I use it to start things.

So again, you know, I think Dez has touched on this a little bit, we’ve got to remember that there’s no, you can’t just say, ‘Oh, well AI did it.’ But you know, I always find it really hard to start a document, you know, someone says, ‘Ah, can you create some policy on some kind of hogwash or something?’ I go straight to CH GBT and I’m like, ‘Write me a policy on this.’ Right, and what it does is it creates some really good bones, some really good points to think about. I then throw that into Grammarly and it uses Grammarly AI to then word it in a way that is logical, makes sense, and is easy to read, and then I publish it. So I generally find I filter through two forms of AI before I release anything.

And, you know, two lots of protection is better than none, I guess what I’m saying is that I definitely think it’s got a place and quite excited to see where it goes. I don’t believe people should be afraid of it. I think there’s a little bit of that. I think people are worried that it’s going to take our jobs away, which is… I don’t think that’s going to be the case. I still think we’re going to need that human interaction with it in order to understand it and interpret it and actually implement the potential outcomes of whatever it produces.

And again, well, it’s not only Crystal tuning in, but we’ve got another friend of mine, Dee, tuning in which is quite exciting. And Chrystal’s talking about the fact that AI could be considered a shared collective, which is, I think holistically is quite a cool thought. Does something have to be owned by an individual, I guess is my thought, and I guess that’s the worry, right? And people have this worry about, ‘Oh, who owns it?’ And I know in safety we’re trying to break down those barriers. You know, there’s… I mean, let’s be fair, you and I are technically working for opposition companies, right? We both work for construction companies in Auckland, arguably we shouldn’t be talking to each other, but what we believe is that the collective knowledge around keeping people safe is far more important. You know, and we need to share learnings and knowledge, and like to think that AI would potentially help us with that as well. So really exciting.

So Andy, back to you, mate. Do you see any pros with AI? I mean, like, you know, it appears to save a lot of time, yes, it appears to save a lot of time. I think it’s like everything though. It’s based on data, right? So the more data and the better data that you’ve got, then the better outcomes you’ve got. But also how you ask it questions, the better questions you ask, the better outcomes you get. But then that still brings in that whole human bias thing because you could very easily program it to suit what you want the outcome to be, like, you know, write this in a circus style format, potentially. Which may produce some great LinkedIn posts, as an example, in the terminology of a circus performance, absolutely.

So I think it’s a useful tool. It’s just going to develop. I think it’s going to develop very, very quickly. And I guess you’ve got to embrace it or you’ll become an old fossil. And I guess this goes back to what we’re talking about on one of the earlier shows, right, Andy, around the role of a health and safety professional and, you know, what we’ve got to know. And there were some concerns around the breadth of knowledge that we have. So now suddenly we’re potentially adding to that list of stuff that health and safety professionals need to know, and that’s AI technology or software, you know, which is a whole other conversation.

What are your thoughts, mate? Any pros that you can see to the use of AI in safety? Yeah, definitely. Like, if it makes… I said in a previous episode that a lot of our role is research, writing, and then conveying a message and making it engaging. And if AI can definitely help with those things, it can help you research, it can help you compile a message, and it can help you adjust that message to suit your audience. I think it’s an excellent tool. But there’s heaps of other applications. I mean, we’re just talking about text, but the video thing, I’ve come across ideas of video monitoring of truck drivers to see if they’re having sort of micro sleeps or they’re blinking for too long, you know, to see if they’re about to nod off, and that’s pretty cool. Can just send an alert.

But then there’s the flip side of that, is are we over monitoring people, are we breaching their privacy in that sense? And on that note, the Centre for Work Health and Safety in New South Wales completed a report in 2021 on the ethical use of artificial intelligence in the workplace. So they cover lots of different aspects, but it comes with a WHS slant, and here’s… you meditating again, sorry. Can you just give us the summary, Dee? We’re running out of time. No? Great. Listen, yeah, I got to be fair, I am a big fan of AI, in particular, ChatGPT.

In fact, it makes me look amazing. The amount of work I can now produce is phenomenal, and yeah, I definitely need some time-saving efforts there. But again, that leads us into the next thing around the traps, right? And we’ve got to be mindful. Things still need to be viewed, and we still need to take ownership of whatever we’re producing.

Utilizing said tools, so yes, while it might better help us achieve more and be more efficient and get more done, there is that trap of it being inaccurate, there is the trap of it being, you know, not what we want it to be, so we just got to be really, really mindful of that, I think. Though the pros for me far outweigh the cons.

I mean Dez, back to you buddy, any thoughts around cons in relation to using AI?

I think I would need to understand it a bit more, but the cons are the same list of cons that you would have for any other tool, you know? If we’re talking about monitoring the workplace and getting AI to interpret it, then you’ve got privacy considerations and other ethical considerations, and then you’ve got data problems with that, and that’s the same with any sort of video surveillance, whether it’s got AI or not. I don’t think there’s anything particular about AI that is a con in that sense. No? No, cool.

Oh, great. Hey, just a quick question, slightly off-topic, man. I mean, what are your thoughts if people take your, you know, if people are using information they’re gathering on you to study you? I mean, what are your thoughts on that as an individual person?

He asked… okay, no, you Dee, sorry. The conversation was focused on you there for a minute. I think just so long as I know about it and I’ve agreed to it, then I don’t personally have a problem with it. I just want to know about it, no cool, excellent.

Andy, your thoughts around the cons in relation to using AI in safety?

Potentially going to make people… It’s not going to make safety people redundant, but certainly the old-school safety person like myself, unless we embrace it, we’re going to be left behind, you know? When I’m churning out one document a month and you’re doing 15 an hour, it’s… It’s not a good look, yeah. No.

Again, you’ve got a long way to go, mate. But that’s okay. What you need to do is you need to find people like Dez and I who are prepared to carry you, who are prepared to support you through this journey, and that helps with our diversity on the show, so, yeah, great. We’ll look after you, Andy. We… we’ll take you along.  I appreciate that, yeah.

Listen, I think that one of the cons… I mean, I really kind of went on some cons and the other con for me is if you get caught out, right? So here I am producing 15 documents and you’re producing one a month, and, eventually people are going to work out that potentially I’m using AI to deliver my work.  I guess is that a problem if the quality is… if people are getting what they want and the quality is there, I’ve… I’ve applied myself, I’ve done the research, I’ve understood how to use the tool, and is that what people are paying for? I don’t know. It would be an interesting conversation should people ever catch me out trying to use AI to do my work. Would… would it be a good idea, do you think, to put a disclaimer on it to say that this work was developed with the assistance of AI?

Well, Andy, I think we’ve got a resident expert in disclaimers, Dez, over to you. What are your thoughts around using a disclaimer if using AI to, you know, do your work?

There was a case in the United States where a law firm…  was taking instructions from a law firm in another state but bringing the action in their own state, and so the law firm in the state had sent them some material that had been generated by ChatGPT but hadn’t… hadn’t sort of read that themselves, and ChatGPT had its own disclaimer in there saying, you know, this information’s been generated by AI, blah blah blah, and it ended up in court, didn’t get… didn’t get screened by the lawyers that submitted it in court, and then it…  there were citing cases that didn’t exist, it’s all sorts of… all sorts of dramas came… came about, and basically the court said that the… the fact that it was another firm using AI didn’t absolve the responsibility of the firm submitting the documents to make sure that they were… that they were legit and accurate, and…  So that was malpractice. So yes, it’s probably worth having a disclaimer. The best disclaimer is actually checking itself and making sure that it’s… that it’s good. But ChatGPT also puts its own disclaimers in there sometimes, as far as I know. Okay, interesting. No, great.

So Dez, just to wrap up the show, mate, your final thoughts on…  AI and… And safety?

Look, it’s…  watch the space. I think it’s… it’s going to…  influence a lot of the things that we do. Yeah, great. Cool.

Andy, your wrap-up for the show, mate, on the use of AI?

And try and learn more about it between now and next show. You got HK, mate? Yeah, yep.  and just remember…  you don’t need to engage with me over Snapchat, it’s used to just use the tool, mate, use the bot, and yeah, I guess my thoughts are, I’m quite excited by it or I think there’s a lot of opportunity, for it, and I mean, the reality is, let’s not be naive here, right? There’s always going to be people that misuse it, there’s going to be people that don’t use it what it was intended for. Unfortunately, unless we solve World Peace, that’s always going to be a problem, right?  So yeah, be mindful of the traps, embrace it, don’t be scared of it, and use it.

And so, yeah, that brings us, up through to the end of, this show on AI and safety. So, I, I guess, Dez, really interested to get your thoughts, mate. I mean, you, you were nervous about this topic. We’ve managed to keep talking for 43 minutes, better than you thought, right?

Yeah, I, I was just wondering, is there any other topics you’re super confident that you’re going to be able to carry the show with because it’s, let me know now, I can go and do some actual research, yeah, well, there’s, I mean, listen, there’s no, no secret here, man. I come in hot every show. I don’t do anything, so, yeah, mate, I’d start, I’d start just researching that whole Spinning Wheel of Death, mate, on that note, though, anything ex- what are you looking forward to, maybe coming up next fortnight now that AI is off the wheel?

Hopefully a few quiet weeks at work, but I think that might be too, too ambitious ’cause, you know, it’s all the end-of-year stuff is starting now, Christmas parties and winding up, so, yeah, it’s going to be busy. Oh, oh, are we going to have a circus of safety Christmas party, just on a side note, I think we should, yeah, cool, okay, we’ll take it offline, we don’t want people knowing where it is or anything.

Andy, you might, what are, what do you got coming up over the next couple of weeks?

Not really sure, actually. I’ve been enjoying the holidays. Oh, I’m doing some training and I’m, oh, I’m presenting a conference. Fantastic, mate, that sounds exciting. To be fair, I don’t know, I’m, I’m, oh, yes, if you, are a big fan of my dulcet tones, and you want to hear more of me, getting quite excitable, I’ll be down in the mighty Y, commentating the Y Regional BMX Champs, which will be live-streamed on YouTube. So, jump onto the BMX New Zealand, YouTube channel or their Facebook page and get to watch some exciting BMXing and get to hear me, commentate, over the weekend, so quite excited about that, a lot going on, hopefully a quiet week, after that out there in the wild world of construction.

And listen, again, something that, that, which we, I know the three of us, we, we’re constantly, talking about this in the background, and, and, and without the followers that are joining our LinkedIn page, without people making comments, this, the show, while that wasn’t our intention, the show was, it’s, it’s greatly appreciated, it’s incredibly flattering to think that, that people, you know, con value what we’re saying and, and are really interested in the conversations that we’re having, and who would have thought, when we first started having these conversations, right, that, that people would actually be interested in them.

And just want to make a shout-out, to one of our followers on our Circus of Safety LinkedIn page, so make sure if you’re not following that page, jump on in, we’re having a steady stream of followers constantly joining, this fortnight shout-out goes to Justin Redford, Justin joins us from the greater Perth area, so again, sticking with our International theme there, super excited, and Justin is a health and wellness coach, a nutrition and exercise specialist, and a corporate wellness advisor, so no doubt there’s, I think you might know Justin, and no doubt he really would have appreciated the meditation disclaimer this morning, he may even use it in one of his sessions, I do know Justin and got a lot of time for him, he’s a quality operator, nice, well, well done Justin, and listen mate, thanks for joining us here on the um the Circus of Safety.

Listen, we got some exciting news to announce, this is quite  exciting I know I am, do we need a can someone like kind of give me a drum roll voila, I didn’t quite know what to do after that  but it is with um great excitement  that we would like to announce the very first and listen hopefully not the last although that could depend on what happens Dez we need to work on that disclaimer for it, the very first  Circus of Safety Symposium and we are calling it the spring symposium  so what is the Symposium? Well, this is a live event, this is where we’re not doing it over the Internet.

We will be in a room. There will be, people turning up, and in fact, one of the exciting things, Andy, I think before we even publicly announced it, tickets were flying hot off the shelves, and, and we’re, we’re sold out, I believe.

No, no, no, no, no, no, we got, we got, there’s a few spaces. I don’t, if you want to throw, no, but we, we, we, we chose to keep a few spaces free, but all the other tickets, marketing, marketing, one1 mate, we need to make the sound really exciting and like it was, it was, it was sold out within seconds.

Well, but we didn’t even announce it, right? And it was sold out, just amazing. Now, so this is a live event, this is an in-person event. We will be doing, some filming there, we won’t be live at the event. Well, maybe, I don’t know, maybe we will try to go live at the event, but we will be filming the event.

The event will, the Symposium will be running a very similar format, to the circus safety video cast. So super exciting coming up, it’s going to be, that’s why it’s not a conference because this is like nothing else you’ve seen before. This is a symposium this is the spring symposium the numo Uno, the number one.

Now, Dez, make sure you’ve got it on your diary for the 24th of October, that’s a Tuesday. It’s just after Labour weekend, so you’re coming off a high, coming off a long weekend, straight into a symposium with the Circus of Safety. I mean, how excited are you by that?

I’m pretty pumped, pretty amped, let’s do it, nice.

Now, Andy, how excited are you about the fact that this is an all-day event? I mean, wow, all day of us.

Beyond excited, and there’s lunch.

Well, listen, and, and entry is quite cheap, right? Entry is quite cheap. All people had to agree to do, and I hope you made this clear when they, when they bought the tickets, is buy us copious amounts of drinks at the end of the day, right?

Yep, you made that, you made people aware that, well, so, well, not only do they have to pay thousands of dollars for the tickets, but they’ve got to supply us with alcohol at the end. I mean, I mean, let’s be fair, a whole day talking safety, I mean, that’s, it’s going to drive anybody to drink, right?  So super excited, Tuesday the 24th, in Auckland. So unfortunately for those of you outside of the, the greater Auckland area, could be a bit of a challenge, but listen, if you want to fly in, by all means.

Now, as Andy mentioned, special consideration has been given to the Circus of Safety, listeners and viewers of this wonderful little conglomerate that we have pulled together, and that is, we have got two tickets that are going to be given away to our viewers.  Andy, any thoughts on, on what we’d like these, these viewers to do? I mean, do they need to send us anything? Do they need to send us pictures of stuff?  I mean, you’re going to be signing up to Snapchat, they could send it directly through, Snapchat to you. I mean, what, anything we want these people doing, to go on the draw to win these remaining two tickets to the first, the Numero Uno, circus of safety Spring Symposium in Auckland?

I guess, I guess if they just, if we get people just to get in touch with us. I don’t know which the best way of doing that is, with, through just the messages here or to, I was so excited about getting people to send you really direct messages, direct messages on LinkedIn. And what we can, what we can do, I just want to highlight that this is a very exclusive event. I mean, there’s only going to be 16 to 18 people there, depending on which room we end up getting.

So, you know, this is, this is very, very exclusive. And if people wish to attend or available to attend and there’s these two, two tickets available, then, if they get in touch with us, what we can do is between now and then we’ll put, imagine it’ll be hundreds of people, we’ll put them on a spinning wheel, we’ll make a spinning wheel, people, yeah, Spinning Wheel of people, and then we’ll, we’ll draw the two out and then we’ll let them know middle of the next week that they’ve been, they’ve been successful.

Well, okay, so time presses because, yeah, the 24th of October is not too far away. We’ve sold out all the tickets already. We’ve kept a couple aside for you listeners. So, we’ve already got one viewer putting their hand up, complete safety solution, safety software, no doubt, would like to come. I mean, that, that sounds to me like a company and, and they may want to sponsor a part of, I’m, I’m not suggesting we open to BRS, but we are.

So if people want to pay copious amounts of money to join us, we will take that. But yes, message, put a comment in the chat below. Send Dez, Andy, or myself a direct message, as you’ve heard. Andy will be on Snapchat later on today, so please jump on there. And message him through Snapchat. But yeah, really excited, guys. Can’t wait, the three of us in a room together again all day is just, it’s a moment that just going to be beyond belief, really. So, that brings us to, to the end of the show. So, Dez, it’s been a pleasure. Great to see you and catch you in a fortnight. Thanks very much. See you then, Andy. Likewise, mate. No doubt we’ll talk, but, take care. Look out yourself, and, happy travels. Take care, and say to all those that view, tuned in to viewers, thanks very much for coming, and we’ll catch you on the next one…